Terry Tucker

[00:00:00] Speaker A: Welcome back, everyone. This is Rashad woods with the Tron podcast on here today. I have a very special guest, a man who knows the meaning of perseverance and positive thinking. I'd like to welcome Mr. Terry Tucker. [00:00:13] Speaker B: Thank you for joining me, Rashad. Thanks for having me on. I'm really looking forward to talking with you today. [00:00:18] Speaker A: Yeah, thank you very much. So, you know, I. Obviously your story is so inspiring. I think obviously it's better that you explain it than I ever could. But just briefly, you were at the Citadel Military Academy. You played basketball there. You worked in went. He's in the marketing department, and the list goes on and on. Can you just tell us a little bit about your background? [00:00:37] Speaker B: Yeah, sure. I grew up on the south side of Chicago. I am the oldest of three boys. You can't tell this from looking at me or from my voice, but I'm 6 foot 8 inches tall and I went to college, as you mentioned, at the Citadel on a basketball scholarship, despite having three knee surgeries in high school. I have a brother who's 6 foot 7 who was a pitcher for the University of Notre Dame's baseball team, another brother who's 6 foot 6 who was drafted by the Cleveland Cavaliers and the National Basketball Association. And then my dad was 6 5. So we used to joke that if you sat behind our family in church growing up, not a prayer chance you were going to see anything that was going on, you know, in the front of the church. But our 5 foot 8 inch mother was really the boss. You know, it didn't tell how strong we were. Whatever mom said, that's the way it went. So. [00:01:26] Speaker A: Right. [00:01:26] Speaker B: You know, grew up in a. In a great family, a great home life. You, you can imagine, it was all about sports. I mean, my parents were running all over God's green earth. You know, I got to practice this time. My brother's got a game where who's going where and things like that, so. [00:01:42] Speaker A: Right, right. [00:01:42] Speaker B: I really think that's. That was sort of the foundation that the groundwork that my parents laid for my brothers and I, and all of us have been in some type of service capacity. My brothers are both in education in Chicago. [00:01:56] Speaker A: Right. [00:01:57] Speaker B: You know, you mentioned I was. I started out at Wendy's after college, and then I actually went to work for the hospital. My father and my grandmother were dying of cancer. When I graduated, I went to work for the hospital that cared for my father and my grandmother. And then at 37, made a major pivot in my life and became a police officer and part of what I did during that was I was a SWAT hostage negotiator. After that, I started a school security consulting business, coach high school basketball. But for the last 12 plus years now, I've been battling a rare form of cancer, a rare form of melanoma. Yeah. [00:02:34] Speaker A: And your story is so inspiring, you know, and I'm so glad that, you know, your positive thinking resonates. You know, you say this very respectfully for people who thought they had a bad day. You know, something which you're going through, and the positive attitude you take with it, it should change their mindset of what they really think. A bad day is not saying they're not going through things, but it just shows the power of positivity and perseverance. And your story was incredible. When I saw what you went through, it's crazy. So you. How did you pivot to education, to security? Obviously, you had, you know, you went to a military school, but what led to that pivot in the change of your careers at 37, you know, to be a police officer and ultimately to do school security. Security, yeah. [00:03:12] Speaker B: So I'm. You're right. I mean, if you look at my resume, it kind of looks like a super ball went off in the room. You know, it's kind of like, oh, right, right, right. There. There is a backstory. And. And the backstory is this. So my. My dad's dad, my paternal grandfather, was a Chicago police officer from 1924 to 1954, and in 1933, he was actually shot in the line of duty with his own gun. It was not a serious injury. It was shot in the ankle. But my dad, who was an infant at the time, always remembered the stories when he was growing up that my grandmother told of that knock on the door of, Mrs. Tucker, grab your son. [00:03:48] Speaker A: Come with us. [00:03:49] Speaker B: Your husband's been shot. So when I expressed an interest in sort of following in my grandfather's footsteps, my dad was absolutely not. You're going to college. You're going to major in business. You're going to get out, get a great job, get married, have 2.4 kids and live happily ever after. But that's. That's the life my father wanted me to live. That's not the life I felt I was supposed to live. So, as I mentioned, when I graduated from college, my father and my grandmother were both dying of different forms of cancer. So I had probably my first major adult decision when I graduated. I could have said, hey, dad, sorry, I know you're dying, but I'm going to go do my own thing and blaze my own trail, or out of love and respect for you, I will do what you want me to do. So, understanding that backstory, my first couple jobs were in business, and I sort of joke. I did what every good son did. I waited till my father passed away and I followed my own dreams. But, Rashad, I'll be honest with you. One of the things I'm most proud about in my life is that I never let my dream die. You know, I'm 37 years old. I'm making good money as a hospital administrator. I'll just leave it alone. [00:04:56] Speaker A: Right. [00:04:57] Speaker B: But I gave all that up to go to the police academy, to start at the bottom of the barrel and work my way up. And so I was. I'm very proud that I never let that die. I knew I was going to do it someday. [00:05:08] Speaker A: I just. [00:05:08] Speaker B: That day was going to be Right. [00:05:10] Speaker A: And so. And so while your police officer, obviously you read. I read. And you said that you were a hostage negotiator. I'm assuming that came in the line of police work? [00:05:20] Speaker B: Yes, I was on the SWAT team. As a hostage negotiator, correct? [00:05:24] Speaker A: Yeah. So, I mean, can you give us a rundown of what that's like? And then I want to pivot back to how that works in your current career where you're doing motivational speaking. And does any practices you've learned from being a SWAT negotiator help you in your current. In your second career, so to speak? [00:05:39] Speaker B: Sure. Absolutely. And I'll start with this. And they gave us this formula when we started out as negotiators, and the formula was 7, 3855. And it had to do with how we as human beings communicate with each other. And 7% of how we communicate a message are the words that we use. And think how many times you've said something. I know I've done. You said something in my life and be like, oh, I wish I hadn't said it, or I wish I would have said this a different way. That's only 7% of how that message comes across. 38% is the tone of voice that you use with those words. Are you really excited and just talking out? Are you really down and depressed? Are you somewhere in the middle? So 38%. And then 55% of how we communicate a message is our body language and our facial expressions. And the reason we were given that formula was that that 55% we didn't have as hostage negotiators. I mean, if somebody was barricaded in. [00:06:39] Speaker A: A room with a gun. [00:06:40] Speaker B: I wasn't in the room with them, you know, so I didn't have the luxury of saying, you know, bob, xyz and have Bob, you know, see Bob kind of roll his eyes like, oh. [00:06:51] Speaker A: Yeah, I can't believe you can see a situation like that. [00:06:54] Speaker B: Exactly. And that is so important. And so think about that. When you communicate a message, you know, if you and I are talking and I'm, you know, like this, what is that saying to you? That's saying, Rashad's saying, I'm saying, so that was one big piece. Another thing, and I think this is important today especially, is we used. A lot of times we'd arrive on scene, have no idea why we were there. And so we would use what was called tactical empathy. I think you can get rid of the word tactical and just talk about empathy. In other words, help me to understand where you're coming from. And the word there, the important word there is understand. I mean, if I was negotiating with a guy who just murdered three people, I wasn't going to say, I agree. [00:07:40] Speaker A: With what you did. Right, right, right. [00:07:42] Speaker B: But by understanding, understanding builds trust, and trust hopefully gets me to a point where I can get that person out safely. [00:07:51] Speaker A: Yeah. And so, you know, I mean, I hate to ask, do the movies do justice or injustice to how? I just have to ask because it's not often I get a chance to talk to a SWAT negotiator. [00:08:01] Speaker B: No, you're right. And you know, there was a, there was a movie back, I think in the late 90s that Samuel L. Jackson played, you know, it was called the Negotiator. And the guy was like Superman, you know, everything. And it was like. And people always ask me, I saw that movie, is that the way it was? Not even close. That's not even close. It was definitely a team approach. So I may be the primary. So I'm talking to the person, but sitting right next to me and listening to everything that I'm saying. And the other person saying is another negotiator. And then there are probably four or five more negotiators doing what I used to call working the crowd. What intel can you get me? So, so I may be talking to the person. And the person, my secondary sitting next to me may write on a post it note, don't talk about his mother. Because working the crowd found out that he had a huge fight with his mother and he grabbed the gun and he barricaded himself. So it was much more of a team approach. And Even when we trained, we had a psychologist that was attached to our unit who would train with us. He would not come out to call UPS at 3, 3 o'clock in the morning. He was smarter than that. You know, so training for not. [00:09:12] Speaker A: Right. [00:09:12] Speaker B: Yeah. And, and he was great. I mean, you know, we would, we would do a scenario, then we would debrief. And that's where you learn, you know, because he might say something like, did you ever think this person was schizophrenic and off their medicine? Oh, I never thought about you. You know, so it was, it was that kind of, you know, muscle memory, just doing scenarios over and over and over and then debriefing about what we could learn from those scenarios. [00:09:35] Speaker A: Absolutely. You know, so one of the things that, and you've shared this story, so I don't want to make it seem like I'm revealing, you know, your medical condition, how you fought through, how you fought through that cancer diagnosis. So I think that there's not even words. I mean, that's, that's a, that's a sentence that stops people in their tracks. Right. And you could have went. Now you went through the challenges of cancer, you know, during the prime of your life. And how did you manage to battle through that and then come out on the other end still successful and still ultimately with the attitude that you have. Because I think positivity through circumstances like that, I mean, I can't even imagine what you went through. [00:10:12] Speaker B: Yeah, exactly. I, I mean, you know, it's certainly a call that when you get it, it's like you've got this very rare form of cancer. And when you're told you'll probably be dead in two years, you're like, really? You know, I talk about turning your life upside down, and I thought, well, you gave me a death sentence, maybe I could try to turn that death sentence into a life sentence. And really what has gotten me through this are what I call my three Fs, which are faith, family and friends, and Absolutely in that order. You know, I have a very strong faith in God. I feel there's a reason that I am still here after 12 plus years, you know, being told you're going to be dead 10 years ago. And I'll just give you an example. My doctor, I had my leg amputated in 2020 in the middle of the COVID pandemic and also found out I had tumors in my lungs. And I still have tumors still being treated for. And my, my doctor showed me my CAT scan and Rashad, I Don't know how to read a CAT scan. I never go back to medical school, you know, and so. But you could kind of look at it and be like, well, that sure doesn't look like it belongs there. Tumors in my lungs. I flew it all around the plural spaces. And I remember looking at my doctor and saying, how was I alive? And I will never forget this till the day I die. He put his head down, he shook his head no. And then he looked up at me and he said, I don't know, because you shouldn't have been said to me, God's not done with me yet. You know, when I die, where I die, how I die, way above my pay grade. Don't spend a lot of time worrying about the dying. Spend the whole time. Yeah. So. And then. Then you've got my family, and it's my wife and daughter and I. And I'll give you another quick story. So my doctor wanted to start me on chemotherapy. [00:11:59] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:12:00] Speaker B: My leg amputated. And I remember saying to him, is it going to save my life? And he said, yeah, probably not, but it might buy you some more time. And I remember telling him, it's like, well, if I know I'm going to die anyway, I. I would rather not go through all that with the outcome being the same, but I'll go home and talk to my family. And it really did happen this way. So I go home, start telling my wife and daughter what happened, and my daughter's immediately, all right, we need a family meeting. I'm like, family meeting. There's three of us. It's not like we got a board here or something like that. So we sit around the kitchen table and individually talk about how we feel about me having chemotherapy. And then when we're done with that, my daughter's like, all right, let's take a vote. How many people want dad to have chemotherapy? And my wife and daughter raised her hand. I'm like, wait a minute. Am I voted for something I don't want to do? [00:12:45] Speaker A: Absolutely shot. [00:12:46] Speaker B: When I was back in the police academy, our defensive tactics instructor used to have us bring a photograph of the people we love the most to class. And as we were learning different techniques to defend ourselves, we were to look at that photograph. Because he reasoned, you will fight harder for the people you love, and you will fight for yourself. [00:13:07] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:13:08] Speaker B: Yeah. So I ended up taking chemotherapy not because I wanted to, but because I love my wife and daughter more than I love myself. And in hindsight, it was the right thing to do. It got me to the drug I'm on now. [00:13:18] Speaker A: And then. [00:13:19] Speaker B: I'm sorry for the long answer, but no, no, no. [00:13:22] Speaker A: There's no. No. I mean, like, you know, I think that I don't have people on here, so I can cut them off and they can't tell their background and story. This is information I wanted to hear. And you're an open book, and I appreciate that. And like I said, your background, you go from Chicago, you go to California for a brief period, you go to Houston, Texas, now you're in Denver. So, I mean, I don't want to dismiss what you just said. Obviously, that's a large chapter, your life. But you made it a point of emphasis that it's not your entire life, I think. Right. You're not defined by the symptoms that you have or the situation that this puts you in. You persevered, and that's. That. That's amazing. And it led you to a. So did you are. So were you in your career of motivation speaking and authoring and entrepreneurship, like, after the diagnosis, before it? I know 37 was kind of the changing point in your life. [00:14:13] Speaker B: Yeah. So I. I was a high school girls, high school basketball coach when we lived in Texas, when I had that callus break open on the bottom of my foot, which is where my cancer started. So I had not been in the speaking realm. I'd not written a book. I'd not done any of that until after. You know, I always say that I've probably done more living in the 12 years that I've been dying of cancer than I've done in my entire life. And I had a pretty good life before I developed cancer. So, you know, a lot of times people just say, oh, you know, this bad thing happened to me. I've got to shut down, and I can't do anything with your life. I mean, I want my life to be shaped by the decisions that I made, not by the ones I didn't make or that somebody else made for me when I die. You know, that's. That's way out of my control. I spend more time now working on thinking about the living part. How can I take what I've learned during this journey and offer it to other people in the hope that maybe it will help them in their lives? [00:15:15] Speaker A: So when you got started, your company is actually. What is it? [00:15:21] Speaker B: Motivational checkout. [00:15:22] Speaker A: I was looking for my notes here. Yeah, I went to your website, so I apologize about that. So right now, you. You said that you took steps to make sure that to pivot towards this Career. Tell us about the book that you wrote and the steps of positivity and thinking. It says, control your mind, embrace pain, and what do you make sure you. What you leave behind and what you weave in peak. So can you go into detail about that? [00:15:46] Speaker B: Sure. I so never expected to write a book. Never wanted to write a book. You know, there's kind of an old joke that says when we talk to God, it's called prayer. When God talks to us, it's called schizophrenia. So, you know, God never spoke to me in my life and said, terry, write a book. But I think what God did and has done in my life before is put enough people in my path that say, terry, you should write a book. Terry, should write a book. So I wrote this book called sustainable excellence. 10 principles to leading your uncommon and extraordinary life. And it was really a book born out of two conversations I had. One was with a former player that I had coached when we lived in Texas. We had moved an area in Colorado where my wife and I live with her fiance. And the four of us had dinner one night. And I remember saying to her after dinner that I was excited that she was living close and I could watch her find and live her purpose. And Rashad, she got real quiet for a while, and then she looked at me and she said, well, coach, what do you think my purpose is? I said, I have absolutely no idea what your purpose is, but that's what your life should be about. Finding the reason you were put on the face of this earth. And there is a reason. Using your unique gifts and talents and living that reason. So that was one conversation. And then I had a young man on social media who was in college who reached out and said, what do you think are the most important things I should learn? Not to just be successful in my job or in business, but to be successful in life. And I didn't want to give him the, you know, get up early, work hard, help. I didn't want to give him sort of the cliches that we all know. So I spent. Spent some time, took some notes, and eventually kind of came up with these 10 thoughts, these 10 ideas, these 10 principles. So I sent them to him, and then I stepped back and I was like, well, I got a life story that fits underneath this principle, or I know somebody whose life emulates that principle. So literally, during the four to five month period where I was healing after I had my leg amputated, I sat down at the computer every day and I built stories. And they're real stories about Real people underneath each of the principles. And that's how sustainable excellence came to be. [00:17:58] Speaker A: And so, you know, I would imagine, and this is just my opinion talking to you, you really don't have to, you know, not the patience for excuses because what you went through and how your attitude shaped and molded you and the success that came from it. And pre. That excuses don't work with people like you. And I think, right, because there's always a way to get through to things. And I think what happens to people, I'll just say one of the hindrances for me of starting the show were two things. Number one, how it would be received. You know, and then you start. You start putting those negative and bad thoughts in your head that, oh, my gosh, it's just going to be another podcast. And then the second one is you procrastinate, and then you wish it would happen. Right? And then you can't wish anything into existence. And then you start seeding doubts in your head about why you shouldn't do things. And then you actually reached out to me, which was shocking because I was like, who am I? So I think your story shut me up, to say the least. Right? You know, like it did, because it's like, hey, man, you know, you never know when you could take a turn in any direction in life. And it's very important. [00:19:09] Speaker B: You know, it's interesting you say that. I did a podcast with a former NFL player, a guy by the name of Marcus Ogden, a great guy. His brother's in the Pro Football hall of Fame. And we. We did the podcast and we were talking afterwards, and he said, you know, Terry, when I first started my podcast, I didn't think anybody would care what I have to say. And I'm like, what? You know, you're. You've made it to the pinnacle of professional athletics. I mean, you're. It doesn't get any better than you. Are you kidding? This guy's like six, six, like 310 pounds. He's huge. He's a mountain of a million. [00:19:42] Speaker A: Absolutely. [00:19:42] Speaker B: You know, it's the same thing. It doesn't matter who we are or what we do. I think we're all kind of. Does it matter? Does my life matter? Do I. Does anybody care what I have to say? And if you don't mind, I'll tell you a quick story. I. I had a nerves. Who was taking care of me when I first started in the infusion center for the treatment that I'm on now. About 25 years old, already a nurse, but Learning how to do things on the unit. And about six months later, she was taking care of me by herself. And she came in and she said, terry, I've got a story I want to tell you, but I don't know how to tell it to you. I mean, I don't know. You know, I'm probably like, what do. [00:20:18] Speaker A: You say to that? [00:20:19] Speaker B: You know, it's kind of like, yeah, exactly. I hope you decide you want to tell me. I can't make you tell me. So she's in and out over the next couple hours, and then finally comes in, sits down, says, all right, here's the story. She said, when I first met you, she said, I was going to get out of nursing. I had a very good friend of mine die. I was in a really dark place. I was. I talked to my family. I was going to quit nursing, and I was going to go to work for Amazon. And she said, and then I met you, and I see what you go through every day. I have a very bad reaction to the medicine that I. That I'm administered. And she said, and I went back in your file, and I read all the, you know, your foot amputation, your leg. I went through everything. And she said, when I finished reading your story, I knew I was where I was supposed to be. Now, she would have never told me that story. I would have had no idea that my life had impacted a young woman like that in the way that it did. So anybody who's out there listening to us, it doesn't matter what you did or didn't do in your life, There is somebody watching how you handle the adversity you experience in your life and would give almost everything they have just to walk five minutes in your shoes. Your story matters. [00:21:31] Speaker A: And I think, you know, and one of the more interesting things is that, you know, I want to keep the focus on you. But hearing stories like this is what inspires me to want to meet, reach out to that next person, ask really good, ready questions, because these are things that people need to hear. Because I think that the Internet has kind of disconnected people from reality a bit. And text messaging and the time that it takes to sit down and hear something like that can go a long way with people. So I appreciate your time. [00:21:59] Speaker B: Sure. [00:22:00] Speaker A: So about your book, and you do motivational speaking, and you go to various locations. You know, what. What are people's receptions to the locations that you speak at? [00:22:09] Speaker B: You know, it depends on the group. I. You know, unfortunately, I'm. I don't have a leg. I'm in a wheelchair. So getting around is harder for me than maybe for some other people. But I. I find ways. I. I do things virtually. I do things more local, do traveling to New York or anything like that. There's. There's always. Like I said, you know, you can always make excuses, or you can figure out a way to make it happen for you. And the thing I think you have to remember as a speaker is that it's not about you. It's about the audience. It's about making the audience smarter, happier, better, more resilient, whatever that ends up being. And I think if you focus on that and. And I can use my story. And I think that's one. One of the reasons I'm kind of lucky. I mean, I can talk the talk, but I can also walk the walk. I mean, you can look at me, and that's kind of a punch since I only have one leg. But anyway, you know, so, you know, I can. I can say, look, these are things that have occurred and happened to me, and I am offering them to you in the hopes that if they make your life better, then by all means, take them. Incorporate them in your life. If not, that's okay. Find those things that matter to you in your life and make that part of your soul. And. And, you know, you're absolutely right. I think social media allows us to stay on the surface with people. It doesn't allow us to go deep. And there's a. There's a professor at the University of Chicago, a psychiatry psychology professor at University of Chicago, who does this experiment with his students. And I. And I love this, and I. I wish I could do this, but he asked his students to go out and get on a bus, and in three questions, be deep with somebody. So you get on a bus, you sit down next to somebody, hey, how you doing? I'm fine. How are you? Question one. Question two. And I'm just making this up. I'm a doctor. That's question two. Question three. Have you always wanted to be a doctor? No, I grew up on a farm. I wanted to be a veterinarian, but XYZ happened. Yeah. My mother died when she was 40, and I really loved her, and she was my idol, and she was a doctor. So I thought, now you're deep with somebody. Now you're talking about why they do what they do in their lives. [00:24:19] Speaker A: Right, Right. Anymore. [00:24:21] Speaker B: We don't. We just kind of, hey, how you doing? I'm fine. [00:24:23] Speaker A: Yeah. Well, and the other thing about it is, too, is, you know, a lot of people are. They can only take small snippets of information. I mean, this has all been studied. If you don't hook somebody in 10 seconds, or if they don't have something that gravitates or grabs their attention, they immediately go to something else. So the attention span, the information has always been more available than it ever has been before. But the amount of information and time that they have to absorb it is very small. [00:24:50] Speaker B: It is. And that's just it. And you need to grab somebody. And I think that's why he's like, okay, I want you to be deep in three questions. I don't want you to be deep in 10 questions. Get in, get in. You know, find out. Somebody. And people, people in a lot of ways are narcissistic. They love themselves, they love to talk about themselves. My wife is in the financial services industry. Know, we would always go to the, the obligatory holiday party at the end of the year. And I used to go, I was like, all right, here's what I'm going to do. I'm going to go in and we're going to meet five of your colleagues. [00:25:20] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:25:20] Speaker B: At the end of the night, I'm going to come out and I'm going to tell you, you know, how they met their spouse, how many kids they have, where they went to school, why they, why they do what they do. I said, and then Monday morning when you go to work, they're going to come to your office and tell you what a great guy I am. But they're not going to be, to be able to tell you one thing about me. Because people don't, you know, they don't say, hey, Rashid, Rashad, how did you meet your wife, Terry, how did you meet yours? They don't communicate with that question. [00:25:47] Speaker A: No. [00:25:48] Speaker B: And it used to drive her nuts because I would get, come out, tell her all about her, you know, people. And then Monday morning, you know, like about 10 o'clock, I get a call from her. You know, this happened. You know, all these people came in and said, you're a great guy, but they couldn't tell me anything about you at all. That's. You want to be a great conversationalist, go to go somewhere with somebody, just ask them about themselves. [00:26:08] Speaker A: Absolutely. [00:26:09] Speaker B: Shut up. That's, that's, that's one thing. You know, we would do that as negotiators. We would, you know, we would say something like, you know, somebody would say something. We'd be like, well, how am I supposed to do that? And then go silent because we don't like silence as human beings. We want to fill that. That. [00:26:28] Speaker A: Absolutely. [00:26:30] Speaker B: But if you go silent now, you get the other person to start talking. So I can talk your ear off, but I can also listen pretty well. [00:26:38] Speaker A: I think it's an amazing thing to learn, and you know it. The only way that you were ever gonna get your story out, too, is actually by listening to other people, because then I'm sure in your. In your path that you took in life, that took you, in a way, you also heard some inspiring stories from people as well, too, who had their own challenges. [00:26:58] Speaker B: Oh, absolutely. I. I have met so many people along this journey, and, you know, people that. So I'm on a clinical trial drug now, and I was on it, you know, in my location, the University of Colorado hospitals with two other people, and unfortunately, they have both passed away. Yeah, but one of the people was incredibly negative. Everything didn't. I like her, but I didn't like being around her because she, like, sucked the energy right out of you. You know, nothing was ever good enough. And it was like, look, I'm going into this treatment. I'm going into battle. You know what I need to be. I don't need you sucking the energy out of me and stuff like that. [00:27:35] Speaker A: Absolutely. [00:27:37] Speaker B: It was my fault. But then I remember she. Her sister used to bring her for treatment, and I remember meeting her sister, and her sister said to her, you know, you are the most negative person I've ever met in my life. And I'm like, good. It is. It isn't me. It's a family member also seeing that. So you've got a choice in life. You can. You can grab the handle of positivity, or you can grab the handle of negativity. You can get up in the morning and say, do I have to go to treatment or do I get to go to treatment? Do I have to go to work or do I get to go to work? [00:28:10] Speaker A: Right, right, right, right, right, right. There's a. You know, and there's a lot to. There's a lot to. To soak in just from your background and everything. I just wanted to get to pivot a little bit towards your career. So you were in the marketing department at Wendy's International, and then that security company you had down in Texas. Can you just give it briefly, those two snippets of information you should have? You had, like, a movie ready made for your life, man. [00:28:36] Speaker B: I don't know. Be pretty boring, I think. I mean, you know, pushing papers from one side of the desk. The other, I mean, I was very lucky, you know, I mean, to. My parents lived in Columbus, Ohio. Wendy's corporate headquarters is located in Dublin, Ohio, which is a northern suburb. And so, you know, they had an opening for a marketing trainee. [00:28:54] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:28:55] Speaker B: And Rashad, you know, when I started, I mean, here I am, you know, I got a college degree, I'm, I'm big man on campus kind of thing. I mean, most of what I did was make copies, order and pick up lunch for meetings, and fill up the company cars of the marketing managers with gas. You know, I'm like, wait a minute, I got a college degree for this. But you know, if you're, if you're a janitor, if you're a garbage man, if you're. Do the best, absolutely the best copier, I'm making another 100%. That was tremendous. And I was also at Wendy's when kind of, they were in their heyday. They. I don't know if, if you're old enough to remember there was an ad called where's the Beef? [00:29:33] Speaker A: Of course. [00:29:34] Speaker B: So you, you remember where's the Beef? Well, I was there during that, you know, I and 89 year old former beauty operator, hair stylist who was in retirement, answered an ad and becomes one of the most iconic, you know, figures in, in advertising. So that was, that was a lot of fun. And then, you know, when I got out of law enforcement, it was like, well, what can I do based on my education, my background, my training that can help people? And so I started a school security consulting business and I worked with mostly private independent schools around the United States to assess their physical security, write their policies and procedures and train their staff. So it was a lot of fun and I hope schools are safer. The ones I worked with are safer because I had the opportunity to work with them. [00:30:22] Speaker A: That's, that's awesome. That's awesome. And it's good that you, you know, a lot of people I've, I've heard and read, you know, took their skills from the police to the private sector. So that's a great accomplishment to be able to do that. Still there, Terry? [00:30:37] Speaker B: I am. You froze for just a second on me. [00:30:40] Speaker A: I apologize about that. I said it's great. I read stories oftentimes from people who took their career in law enforcement and took it to the private sector. And that's just another success story. So I always like to. So how did you end up in Denver? [00:30:52] Speaker B: My wife's job. My wife has always been the primary breadwinner, so. Okay. She got an opportunity here to work for a company called Janice, a money management company. And so we moved to Denver. [00:31:02] Speaker A: Okay, awesome, awesome. Heard is beautiful there. I had my brother enjoy. [00:31:06] Speaker B: It's beautiful. [00:31:07] Speaker A: I've heard it's beautiful. I heard it's absolutely beautiful. So I hope to get a chance to make it out there. So, you know, can you tell everybody that the title of the book was again? [00:31:16] Speaker B: Sure. The title of the book is called sustainable excellence. 10 principles to leading your uncommon and extraordinary life. [00:31:24] Speaker A: So that. You know what I like about that too, because it personalizes somebody's life that it says that. You didn't say my extraordinary life. Right, you said your extraordinary life, which is great for the reader. So I'd love to get a chance to read a copy of that book because it puts the person's mind in place that they have an extraordinary life. They just have to have the will to live it, you know, and have the wherewithal to push and do things that ultimately will get them past that self doubt. [00:31:46] Speaker B: They are. And, you know, David Goggins, the former Navy seal, you know, talks about, you know, small minds and weak people kill big dreams. And, you know, I mean, most people, and I think this is true, never even contemplate what it means to be great at anything in their lives. And there's a. There's an entrepreneur by the name of Ed Milet. He's out in California. He played baseball at Pacific University. And he talks about the four types of people in the world. And when I first heard this, I was like, I gotta think about this to see if it's really true. He talks about the first group being the unmotivated people. And he said that's the vast majority of people that you will encounter in your life. And the next group he talks about are the motivated. And he said, it's kind of a carrot and stick approach to life. If I do this, I will get that. He talks about it being kind of low level, but it's a very effective way for a lot of people to have a great life. And then the third group he talks about are the inspirational people. The word inspiration coming from two words in spirit. So if you're an inspirational person, you move people with your energy. And then the last group he talks about are the aspirational people, where people aspire to be like you. And depending on which group, I'm, you know, if I'm talking to a group, especially you have young people always bring that up. Be like, all right, show hands. How many people are unmotivated? Nobody Raises their hand. You know what? [00:33:15] Speaker A: You put them on the spot, right? [00:33:18] Speaker B: Then you know what? Most of the people you'll encounter are unmotivated. Right? One of those people, right? [00:33:25] Speaker A: And you know, and it's not sometimes, you know, when you actually have somebody say something to you, it's almost like when you take those self assessments, right? It's the privacy in your own home, and then you get the results you don't like. And it's an eye opener. You're like, geez, this is. This is pretty terrible, right? [00:33:40] Speaker B: Absolutely. [00:33:41] Speaker A: And so. But then when somebody's in front of you, you obviously don't want to have the embarrassment. Like, no, I'm here. I'm inspired. Of course. I work hard, right? No, you know, I'm fooling myself, right? So. But at the end of the day, you have to go home. And there's a great quote that I always. I've always tried to make sure that I keep in the back of my head. It says, you are who you are when nobody's looking. Right? And so it resonates. Did you have any questions for me? Because I know your time is so valuable. [00:34:07] Speaker B: I'm always curious, what. What made you start a podcast? [00:34:12] Speaker A: Because I'll tell you the truth, I wasn't smart enough to do a lot of things, and I figured I could talk and make. [00:34:16] Speaker B: I doubt that. I doubt that seriously. [00:34:18] Speaker A: So, you know, it's funny because I was. I would listen to things, and I was a guy who could, you know, right now I'm watching a documentary on the types of dictators that happen around the world. So really, a lot of it is picking up circa World War I. But long story short, I'm the guy that would always watch a documentary or the History Channel or even like the history of food or how things were built or made. And so it finally resonated on me that, you know, I was like, well, they do podcasts on this, they do podcasts on that. Why don't I just talk about my own curiosity? You know? And then it resonated. Let me talk to subject matter experts, successful people with compelling stories to kind of feed that need to know information from me. Right? And your story is fascinating and it resonates with a lot of people. And I'm not a huge reader because I like to see. I'm a visual person. I like to see things, like to hear people talk. I like to hear speeches and things like that. And so it kind of dawned on me, I said the randomness of nothing, because honestly, I. I kind of said whatever kind of comes up that could be interesting to people, I think is a positive thing. [00:35:22] Speaker B: You know, you make an incredibly important point about being curious in your life. And so many people, I mean, that was one thing we were taught as negotiators. Be curious, try to, you know, delve deep with these people about what's going on and things like that. There are a lot of people that just either aren't curious or get to a point in their life and feel, you know what? I, I, I know enough. I don't need to know anymore. Yeah, I want to be the person. And it sounds like you want to be the same person. You want to die learning. You want to die, you know, your last breath is, I learned something new. [00:35:57] Speaker A: Absolutely. [00:35:58] Speaker B: And that's, that's such an important thing that you bring up there. And I, I can't emphasize that enough. [00:36:04] Speaker A: Being curious, you have to, you're literally like, the world is literally a living, breathing museum. It really is. You just have to, it's there in front of you. You just have to have the wherewithal to find out what's going on if that's your curiosity. [00:36:18] Speaker B: So if you weren't, if you weren't doing what you're doing now, what would you be doing? [00:36:25] Speaker A: You know, it's funny if I was, you know, when it comes to this podcast, I think that the biggest thing that I've, I've kind of learned is my mouth is my best tool, kind of. Right? So, like, I, you know, I just think that my talking, I, my biggest, I'll pivot a little bit. I had to learn to talk less and listen more. My biggest problem is sometimes I would over talk or I wouldn't let people, you know, sometimes too much information is a bad thing. And so I don't know everything. I don't know what it's like to be a hostage negotiator. I don't know what it's like to be in security. So I think when it comes to this particular field, I had to reach out to smart people to learn things, you know, and that's my biggest, you know, just because I went to college doesn't mean I'm smart. You know what I mean? [00:37:12] Speaker B: Oh, yeah. I'm sure we both met a lot of really people with a lot of credentials that are dumber than a box of rocks. [00:37:17] Speaker A: That's it. Right. So it was, I owed it to myself to find the information, to people. And then what I found out, just briefly, is when you ask people who do things, they really like, enjoy talking about it. They generally do, you know. [00:37:31] Speaker B: And do you find that the people you talk with? Because I find this, you know, if you. If you reach out to. I'll never forget, I was. I was at. When I was at Wendy's, you know who Ted Turner is? [00:37:43] Speaker A: Oh, yeah. [00:37:45] Speaker B: So Ted Turner came to Wendy's, and Ted Turner, you know, when I was kind of out of college, was sort of the Elon Musk or the Jeff Bezos, you know, just this real rich guy that, you know, had more money than God and came to Wendy's, and everybody thought, oh, he's going to buy the company. He. He didn't buy the company and stuff, like. But he was sitting in the. Or standing in the lobby, and the guy he was with had gone to get his car. And so I went down to him and I. I just introduced myself, and I'm like, I'm nobody. I'm just like, marketing trainee right out of college, you know, And I. I just. And he talked to me for half an hour. [00:38:20] Speaker A: That's. That's mind blowing. It's mind blowing. It must have been. Never used to. [00:38:23] Speaker B: And that's just it. But a lot of people, if you reach out, it's like, hey, this person's an expert in the field. I want to know something. You know, people, oh, he'd never talked to me, or she'd never. You know what the worst they could say is? [00:38:34] Speaker A: No, absolutely. [00:38:35] Speaker B: You know, but it's amazing. Kind of like you just said, the people that are willing to, hey, I've learned some things. Let me offer them to you as well. People want to give back, especially people that have made it to the top. [00:38:47] Speaker A: You know, it's crazy. And you would think that, you know, because I think the biggest tool is the curiosity for information. And sometimes in order for me to start this, I had to put myself back into being a little kid, because what's the first thing a kid does? They touch and grab and seek everything, and they ask you the same question a thousand times. So. But as you get older, you like, oh, it's bad to ask questions. It's bad to, you know, want to know things, or I'm just gonna be shut off and not, you know, pursue certain things. You still have to put yourself in the mind of a kid, like, ask questions. [00:39:17] Speaker B: That's a great. That's a great analogy. [00:39:19] Speaker A: Yeah, you have to. I got three daughters, so I had to kind of say, well, you know, you ask questions. Why can't I? I'm. You know, it's Always about learning in an active mind. Age is slower, you know, it does. [00:39:28] Speaker B: And it's always, you know, our daughter was visiting, she's married now and in the military, and she and her husband were visiting for Thanksgiving. And she's a graduate of the United States Air Force Academy. [00:39:38] Speaker A: Congratulations. [00:39:39] Speaker B: Yesterday. I'm like, hey, are you glad you went to the academy? You know, I, I, Because I've never asked him that question. You know, it's like, would you have rather. Her other school was the University of Rochester in New York. I said, would you rather have gone to Rochester? [00:39:52] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:39:53] Speaker B: And she kind of thought about it for a while and she was like, no. You know, I'm, I'm glad I went to the Air Force Academy. Giving me opportunities that I wouldn't have had otherwise. But it's asking your kids those kind. [00:40:04] Speaker A: Of questions, and that's the, that's the key to curiosity, you know. Well, I've probably monopolized enough of your time. I can't thank you enough for being on the Tron podcast. Are there any links or other things you want to leave before we, before we conclude the show? [00:40:19] Speaker B: Yeah, you can get a hold of [email protected]. you can leave me a message there, get access to my social medias and all that. Let me leave you with this. This one quote I love to read. I'm prolific reader, and there's a book called Farewell to Arms. It was written by a man by the name of Ernest Hemingway, and it's kind of a semi autobiographical book about his time as an ambulance driver with the Italian army during World War I. And there's a quote in there that I absolutely love. And the quote is this. Life breaks everyone, and afterward, many are stronger at the broken places. So just like if you were to break your arm, you know, the doctor would set it, put it in a cast. When that arm heals, that bone is stronger at the area where it was broken than the rest of the bone. That's just a metaphor for life. We're all going to experience difficulty adversity in our life. If you can keep moving forward and come out the other side, you will be a stronger and more resilient individual. [00:41:15] Speaker A: Thank you very much for the words of wisdom, Mr. Terry Tucker. Thank you for your time, sir. [00:41:19] Speaker B: Thank you, Rashad. I appreciate it. Yeah.