Shermin Kruse

[00:00:00] Speaker A: Foreign. Welcome, everyone, to the Tron podcast. This is Rashad Woods. I have a very special guest today. I have share crews who has an incredibly inspiring story of resilience, learning, entrepreneurship, and overall, what the American dream is all about. Thank you so much for your time. [00:00:37] Speaker B: Oh, it's my pleasure to be here. On the Randomness of Nothing. I very much actually look forward to discussing randomness and nothing. [00:00:45] Speaker A: I appreciate that. I appreciate that. And so we keep the topic light. You know, I loved, you know, hearing about your background. You know, you came from, you know, the time where there was upheaval in your home country and you had to immigrate your family with literally nothing during the Islamic revolution. That's incredible. [00:01:00] Speaker B: Well, we did have two suitcases, so it wasn't nothing. [00:01:06] Speaker A: Unbelievable. I do. Yeah. Correct. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. [00:01:11] Speaker B: Took a couple of photo albums and Some of the silver. [00:01:14] Speaker A: Right? [00:01:15] Speaker B: Some of the silver. The silver. To this day, I have the last spoon from that set of silver in my drawer. And I try to eat with as often as possible and remember. Yeah. [00:01:25] Speaker A: And so. So let's. Let's dive right into your background. Your story is. I mean, this is incredible to hear. And where you are right now is a testament to your willpower and your strengths. So please share for your background with us. Please. [00:01:36] Speaker B: I appreciate it. Thank you. I do think that what I've been able to achieve is partly due to my willpower. I also think a lot of it has to do with the change in the external power dynamics that I encountered. And one of the things I really, really like talking about and why I wrote the book Stoic Empathy was to help people despite the existence of those external power dynamics impacting you. Right. Because your power is going to be less if you come from nothing, and it's going to be more if you come from a lot. And within each economic situation, there's going to be discrepancy and variances. So. But what I'd like to do is work with people to help find their willpower within the space that's available to them. So that space between stimuli and response where you are, that's my goal. And really my childhood actually really helped prepare me for this because we did. Did not immigrate during the revolution. We actually were forced to live through the first 10 years post revolution, which was a very, very dark time, because the regime which had taken effect was more strict. It needed to really strengthen its grip and its hold on the people. The revolution was launched by multiple factions, and then there was internal conflicts within those factions, and then The Islamists sort of won that conflict. And, you know, there was a lot of other people who died as a result of that. And then during. Yeah. And then during that same period of time, Iraq, the neighboring country to Iran, I was. I was born in Tehran. I was growing up in Tehran, the capital of Iran, which is in the mountains, actually. It's in the foothills of the mountains. And Iraq declared war on Iran. It was a territorial dispute. That war lasted 10 years. So this 10 years that. That I'm there is composed of the first 10 years following regime change, at which time nobody's really accustomed, doesn't really know how to maneuver their way through the situation. And then also the war. And by the time I left Rashad, there was about six missile attacks a day into Tehran. So it was a very. A lot of civilian casualties. About a million people died. There's 40 million people in Iran at the time. So that's one out of every 40 people, if you can imagine. So that was. That was the environment in which I grew up. Here's the. Here's the blessing part. Right. Which I had nothing to do with. I didn't earn. I didn't lose my father, I didn't lose my mother. I didn't lose any siblings. Right. And that's the kind of nightmare a lot of people have a really impossible time coming back from. And I didn't have to come back from that. I did have to live through the dangers myself. But it's a little bit, you know, World War II in London, you kind of keep calm and carry on, you know. [00:04:18] Speaker A: Right. And to come somewhat whole from a situation, situation like that is incredible. And I thought, you know, I was listening to some of your speeches and some of your other interviews, and I thought the example that your mother set when you were nine years old and you were dealing with that guard kind of established the way that you. I don't want to say compartmentalized, because, you know, that's your field, but how you molded yourself into the person that you are. So that story you gave, and obviously you could tell it much better than I could about the levels of emotion and sympathizing with that guard and being able to almost disarm the guard because you were, quote, unquote, dressed inappropriately, and then that kind of set the basis of where you are right now, which is incredible, because it wasn't like your mother was a master negotiator from my understanding. Correct me if I'm wrong, please. [00:05:03] Speaker B: Right. I mean, she wasn't a master negotiator. In the corporate world. But obviously she had some sort of inherent gift for masterful negotiation. [00:05:09] Speaker A: Yes, yes. [00:05:10] Speaker B: So you guys who haven't heard the, the TEDx talk, I've actually given three of them. I'm produced a whole bunch. So just to help direct everybody a little bit, this particular one that Rashad is talking about was a TEDx Reno talk. And it's the story of a conference confrontation between me and my mother and a morality police guard. I was a mere child, and I had just turned nine, and it really was required that I wear the headscarf. And really quite often I, I didn't. And really, one of the things living in Iran at the time, and probably still now and probably all oppressive regimes, dictatorial regimes, is you kind of lead this double life, right? So you're one thing outside the house in order to protect yourself, protect your family, maintain your alive status, and then you get to be much more yourself, which is something potentially something totally different inside the house or behind the closed doors. So here's me and my mom were in the marketplace. I'm not wearing my headscarf, and we get in trouble. We get approached by a morality police guard. And at the time, they were getting most of their weapons, a lot of their weapons from the Soviet Union. So she had. They had these like, really, really big assault rifles. And what I have in my mind is this massive person with this massive gun. But honest, now, reflecting back on it, I was so small that it's quite possible it wasn't as big as. [00:06:30] Speaker A: Right, right, right. [00:06:31] Speaker B: That's how it is in my head. It's just almost like a giant of a human being with, you know, almost a giant of a weapon, her hand on the trigger. And my mom has to essentially talk our way out of this situation with no power, right? She can't yell and scream. She can't storm out. She can't, you know, punch the guard out. There'll be 20 more right on top of us. I mean, I suppose she could. And this is actually one things I talk about. There's plenty of brave, courageous women and people all around the world who do stand up to, to this type of terror. And then they die or they get tortured, or at least they risk that. So what I always like to say is I'm not, certainly not belittling the braveness of such a choice. But I. What I want to do is I want to make sure people are making that choice intentionally in that moment. My mom's intentional choice was protect my daughter, right? Which is a Fair. Yeah. Very understandable choice to make. And so what she decided to do was empathize with the guard, better understand the perspective of the guard, and create a kind of a warm connection between herself and the guard, which made it more difficult for the guard to be difficult on us, and eventually the guard let us go. And she did all of that not in the same way you empathize with, towards your child, certainly not in the same way she was empathizing towards me in that scenario. Right. Her emotional involvement in my emotions was vastly different than her emotional detachment in her empathetic read of the guard. Right, right. And so that's one of the things I, that I learned in that moment was wow. I mean, she really did this in a way that didn't seem false, didn't seem inauthentic, and convinced the guard to have empathy for us and let us go. And we survived. And we. There was many, many encounters that growing up. And it was really incredible to see how adept some of the survivors, some of the adults who had learned, learned how to manage the situation were. And then what's even really more interesting in some ways and also really horrible is how adept the children had to be and how confusing that was to us because half the time you hardly know what's real. [00:08:41] Speaker A: Right. And you know, so there was a movie about that once, a long time ago, I believe it's called Life is Beautiful, where the guy had to, you know, make sure that his child was unaware of the atrocities that were taking place by making it as a game. And I'm not saying that your life was a game, but he did that to put perspective, to insulate him from certain things. And I thought that was a beautiful story that was told. What I found interesting though is that your example where you said that woman was probably never asked that question of how she was or how she felt. Aren't you, you know, for lack of a better term of man, you really don't want to do this again, do you? Like, you know, and so it immediately. [00:09:17] Speaker B: Like puts the person over and over and over. [00:09:21] Speaker A: Right, right. And so then all of a sudden, a woman with a child, clearly non threatening, you know, that put a person who normally isn't empathized with or seen from their perspective in a position where they're like, well, geez, that person thought about me. Of course I'm going to, you know, be open to giving this person a break. That. And that led you to kind of find that angle throughout your corporate and legal career, is that correct? [00:09:44] Speaker B: That's 100% correct. I actually studied a little bit in undergrad in my neuropsychology courses and then brushed up on those in the last, you know, 15 years or the or so better understanding. What is it that actually happens in the brain? What is it that actually, why is it that, that this works? Why is it that we're more likely to buy a product from a salesperson who complements our shoes? Right? And so there's, there's, there's reasons for that. There's certain components of neurological changes in response to that empathetic understanding or reading of your emotions that without any control on your part, just reduce the trigger a little bit, right? That doesn't mean you can entirely diffuse a dangerous situation with, with an empathetic word. But automatically in the brain there's a slight diffusion that takes place. And so that to me, as I studied, as I studied it, well, first I saw my mom do it, I had no idea what was going on. And then later I studied it and then I started to, to practice it. Right? Because that's what you want to do with juries, with judges, but also with your client, with your vendor, with your team, with your paralegal, and then also with your spouse, with your children. Right? And again, there's going to be very different levels of emotional attachment in those different examples, right? But the act of understanding the cognitive aspect of that and then utilizing that understanding to diffuse the anger and, you know, deconstruct the harshness of the situation, that remains consistent. [00:11:18] Speaker A: Well, I think too it just to pivot slightly, I think that people, especially in the social media era, have become prisoners of the moment of their emotion, right? Whether they see something, whether they disagree with something, and then it's immediate. And you get that immediate satisfaction. And then that post or that tweet or whatever somebody may do, the realization of what you did may not kick in until a day later or even a few hours later when you're on the wrong side of something, something. So that psychology of managing that anger is not just a feature of life and death. It's also of career, social status and mental well being as well. Too. [00:11:55] Speaker B: 100%. 100% spot on. And it's not just anger. It's also anxiety, fear, jealousy, right? These are other emotions. And you know what? Sometimes that anger is good for you because it motivates you to act. And if it's serving you, no problem, you can allow it to serve you. The question is, how do you put yourself in that space and expand that space between the Stimuli and the response so as to allow your mind to sort of go in there and evaluate. Is this something I want to do? Does this reflect my values? [00:12:26] Speaker A: Absolutely. [00:12:26] Speaker B: As opposed to just my momentary feelings. Right. Because momentary feelings can be fleeting. Does this action reflect my morality, my overall values? I always say I don't like moralizing to people. I don't like to tell people how to be moral. [00:12:40] Speaker A: Of course, my. [00:12:41] Speaker B: My goal. Yeah. My goal is to help folks stay true to their own moral code by following that, because it's very hard. Earlier you talked about Life is Beautiful, which is one of the most extraordinary films I've ever seen. Yeah. [00:12:55] Speaker A: Beautiful film. [00:12:56] Speaker B: It's set in World War II, during the Holocaust. And this story is of a father and a daughter and the world that the father creates for the daughter in order to protect her. But it's also about the beauty he sees, even as he sees the ugliness, the terror, the violence. Right. All around him. He sees. That's why he's able to show it to her. And there's some. There's something even more extraordinary about what he's doing because he can see the whole picture, not just all the bad. It might be 99% of it. Right. But also the. Yeah. Also the little bit of good. And use that good not to deny the bad is existing to himself. He very well is aware. It's. I knew that the missiles were falling, and he. You know, I heard the sounds. Right. So. Yeah. But to help. To. To help to create a scenario where his daughter can survive without being traumatized, which is an extraordinary, extraordinary thing for a parent to be able to do for a child. And I bet almost everyone who's been on your show has done this at one point or another. Got some really traumatic news, but, like, kept control because of who else was in the room. [00:14:06] Speaker A: Right. Well, it's even. I mean, you could even take it to an example of, you know, let's say somebody didn't have something that traumatic. Even if you're driving, right, and you're with the kids in the car, and, like, either you hit a bump or it's going south real quick, your kids have to know that something bad isn't happening at that moment. Because if Daddy's panicking or Mommy's panicking, it goes south really quick. Right. So, you know, if they see you calm behind the wheel, you know, just to pivot. A quick example, because this is about you, not me, is we drove to Myrtle beach once, and so you have to drive through West Virginia, and the GPS that was put in the truck. Somebody put avoid tolls at the time. I ended up going all through the, like, West Virginia's mountain is on its best day. Oh my gosh. [00:14:49] Speaker B: I've done that drive, my friend. I've done that drive because my mother lives in Lexington, Virginia, and we drive through those mountains in West Virginia. [00:14:58] Speaker A: You're ready to cry, you know, you're ready to cry. And so like, all of a sudden, I didn't know, right. That they did that. And so I'm driving and then I'm going, you know, on the side of those mountains, which is really steep and the barriers are very close. And so, you know, got the three kids in the back seat. The wife's looking at me, you know, with the, the look of terror. I'm like, I gotta make sure these kids in the backseat don't see dad, like tearing it up. Right, right. And, you know, and it was 100, you know, you're just doing one of these, like you're doing that heavy breathing, like, come on, man. Come on, man. And then when it happened, you could finally decompartmentalize. But it was like, you know, in no way, shape or form does that, you know, a level of, you know, a parent having their kids survive the Holocaust or what you went through, but compartmentalizing in real time, that was, that was something that was really helpful at that exact moment. [00:15:46] Speaker B: 100. It's the same thing. In fact, it's so interesting that you bring up driving because in my most recent TEDx talk, which I gave in Oshkosh, I specifically mentioned that example of being in traffic and suddenly having the wherewithal to swerve out of the way because you were able to maintain control over the situation. And, you know, it's, it's. I appreciate the distinctions between that example and the Holocaust example. [00:16:09] Speaker A: Absolutely. [00:16:10] Speaker B: Your kids could have died. You know what I mean? I mean, I don't know how different. I don't know how different. At the end of the day, it really is just what happens in a reasonably safe life. Right. Is that we don't encounter these situations as frequently at all. Right. But. But you encounter them. You've had, though you just described one right now where if you had panicked, oh, your children might have been lost. Right, right. And so that, that is a. That is. I can't imagine a worse thing. [00:16:40] Speaker A: There. There was, you know, those, those mountains aren't in Michigan. You know what I mean? So, you know, it's just like. And I, you start, you kind of start freestyling it on the spot. Like, I think, you know, as long as I don't, you know, the knuckles are real, but you can't see the sweat on the back of my neck. You know what I mean? But so I think, and I say this at the utmost respect, is there some correlation between people who have gone through traumatic situations like yours and the pinnacle of their own personal success? Because you hear people who have gone through situations like yours, and then next, you know, they go to a society that's capitalist and opportunity for women that weren't there, and they look at it and they say, this is the oyster that is needed, and I'm going to maximize everything that's in front of me. Because I know the opposite. [00:17:25] Speaker B: Yes. So I would say the answer is yes and no. So on the one hand, if you've encountered a traumatic experience, but adapted to it and learned from it, and then think about if you had a number of those over and over again, and each time you were able to adapt, learn, grow, increase your control over yourself, your awareness of your environment. Right. Your ability to influence your environment, then you are more likely to succeed simply because you've had more practice. Yes. And yes. And sometimes when it's that extreme and you enter another environment. Because when I move to the west, the power dynamics here are not perfect, man. I mean, there's. There's a lot of power, power imbalance in this socioeconomic climate as well. It's of a different degree and a different scale. And so I find that it's easier for me to maintain focus, gratitude and. And resilience and grit and not give up in response. Because my baseline is different than those who live here. I think for people who live here, their. Their baseline is whatever peers, right? And so I do think you see that, but only because. Only because the baseline's different and I've had more experience, I would tell you, many people, they don't learn how to recover from trauma. And it is almost an unreasonable expectation to have. Right? And they don't. They don't engage in the adaptability, and their lives are destroyed. And you meet those people all the time too, right? They're the ones whose lives are destroyed. And you know, by the events that. Because of the events that occurred to them. Now, it's also because of their own lack of adaptability. But again, it's. It's also the underlying root of the thing. The event can go. Can make you go either way. It's your response. Yeah, it's your response, your response to these stimuli that controls how you twist, turn, move up, fall down, get back up again right through this world of ours, no question. [00:19:24] Speaker A: And you know, and I always bring my analogies to. I do martial arts. So you know, I, I did marsh, I do martial arts, I did it. You know, either way is kind of lack of a better term. It's almost like staying calm in a situation, you know, because when you're sparring. [00:19:37] Speaker B: Up a boxing example in my teachings all the time. [00:19:39] Speaker A: Oh, absolutely. Because, you know. Right. And I'm a huge boxing fan and to stay calm in the tornado of a boxing match. Right. To turn your head like. And you, you know, like. I mean, I'm a huge boxing fan. So people like who are casual watchers will be like that guy got popped or that woman got popped. And then you watch the replay and they turn their head right at the exact moment the punch was about to land and you're like, no, they stayed calm. They, they studied their opponent and they knew exactly when to turn their head, to turn that 100% impact into a 10 impact. [00:20:10] Speaker B: Right, right. [00:20:11] Speaker A: The casual, I can't tell, but they were in complete control the entire time. Because you're going to get low blowed, you're going to get hit by the back of the head, you know, you're going to get rabbit punched. And again, I don't want to over talk you, but all of those things to stay calm in that chaos is absolutely impeccable and it applies to the life and the things that you are teaching people. [00:20:31] Speaker B: I love how in sync you and I are. Actually, I've done, I'm not probably anywhere close to the expert you are. I've done a little bit of street fighting, just hand to hand combat and. [00:20:41] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah. [00:20:42] Speaker B: And I've done so I have a little bit of a martial arts background, but I know what it's like to get punched in the face. [00:20:47] Speaker A: It's a terrible feeling. [00:20:48] Speaker B: It's a terrible thing. And if you're in the ring, which is life, you're always in the ring, right? [00:20:53] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:20:54] Speaker B: You're going to get punched in the face. It's going to. Now maybe some people get it, some people get it more. The more. Yeah. The more experienced you are, the more you know how to turn your head like you explained. [00:21:07] Speaker A: Absolutely. [00:21:07] Speaker B: Not only then am I minimizing the impact of the punch, but I'm also maximizing the exhaustion of my opponent. Right. So strategically. [00:21:14] Speaker A: Absolutely, yes. [00:21:16] Speaker B: And, and I'm saving my own energy by not jumping out of the way and just turning my head. So there's a lot that's happening in that moment that's not just defensive, but also offensive, just through that turn of the head. But there are also times when it's going to catch me off guard and I'm going to have to keep my wits about me for the next punch. And that's. That's all, that's all it's about. And that's. It's life, you know, It'll discombobulate the heck out of you. Well, yeah. And if you can maintain that control, you can turn that 100% impact, like you just said so beautifully, Rashad, into a 10% impact. Now it's easier to bear because of your adaptability. It's easier. [00:21:54] Speaker A: Absolutely. And, you know, I, I could go down the wormhole of martial arts and boxing all day, and I, you know, I would love to have a topic different with you on that day, but I will just say that you need to make sure not to get. Want to get your. Get back at that exact moment. If there's a time, if there's three rounds, six rounds, nine rounds, whatever the amount of time frame that you. Unless it's a knockout blower or a TKO or submission, you don't need that. Get back right away. You have to learn from that lesson that happened in that exact moment. Maintain your calm and nerves and be able to adapt and learn from what you did. And then on top of that, everything that you are not will come out during that specific time. [00:22:30] Speaker B: I love it. I have a buddy on the south side of Chicago, actually produced his TEDx talk because I thought he was absolutely brilliant. And then Ted ended up promoting it. And his, his name is Jamiel Cannon. And this guy goes into the inner city and he takes the kids that are the most likely to be violent. Right. He's not going out there taking the, you know, the community leaders or the people with straight A's. [00:22:56] Speaker A: Right, Right, right. [00:22:57] Speaker B: Violent kids. And what does he do? He teach them to box. [00:23:00] Speaker A: Absolutely. [00:23:01] Speaker B: He teaches them because then when they're triggered right in that moment, they have a greater ability to insert that space between the stimuli and the response and take control over whatever trauma might otherwise have resulted in them having a different response that wouldn't serve them right. [00:23:18] Speaker A: Without question. Without question. I would love to. Let's talk about your books, you know, and then we talk about stoic empathy, which obviously just seems like a contradiction in terms you've written. And I want to get. I want to get clear. I've seen two books that you wrote. Have there been more There. [00:23:31] Speaker B: I did also write a textbook that's not as heavily publicized because it's quite dull. It's a global trend actions textbook. I do not expect anyone to read it except my students at Northwestern. [00:23:41] Speaker A: Okay, well, well, you know, listen, at the end of the day, you know, I was in college and you know, whether it's informative or whether it's for your own personal growth, it's still an accomplishment that you wrote that. So let's dive right into those. Just briefly about those books that you wrote. [00:23:54] Speaker B: Thank you. Well, so my first book is a novel that is based on the true stories of the women of my family before and after the Iranian revolution. So it actually spans multiple decades. It's actually one of the most fun creative endeavors I've ever exchanged. And I engaged in. And I wrote that book while I was still practicing law full time and gave birth to the first three kids. So. [00:24:16] Speaker A: Unbelievable. [00:24:17] Speaker B: It was a very weird and interesting time to be writing the new book, which in many ways is the grand opus of my life, is stoic empathy. And it's what you described, Rashad, when you're in the car and your empathic awareness of your children in the backseat, your awareness of your wife's concern, that is part of what's leading you not to scream bloody murder and not just focus on the road and not get folks killed, but also remain calm so you don't create panic in the vehicle. Because that. [00:24:49] Speaker A: Absolutely, yeah. [00:24:50] Speaker B: Because that could increase the risks. So it is precisely your responsibility towards the people in that vehicle. If you were alone, you might have been more free to scream and fight. You know, hopefully you still drive well. But. But you would have expressed yourself differently. Right. And so you express yourself in a certain way precisely because of your empathic understanding. Or think about trauma surgeon. A trauma surgeon has to be careful how they empathize with their patient because if they're over invested in the emotions of the kid with the bullet wounds that came in through the doors, they might not be able to operate successfully. They won't be able serve that individual. Right, Right. Or my mom. My mom on the streets of Tehran, encountering this time a hostile force. Right. But still watching out for her child and herself. She needed to empathize with the guard to understand that situation. Just like you need to understand that road, just like you need to understand the next turn coming up in that road. Right. It's the exact same thing. Pretend it's the road. And so your emotional connection with that guard is vastly different. Just like the trauma surgeon's Emotional connection with the patient. Vastly different than your emotional connection with your child. In that. [00:26:08] Speaker A: Absolutely. [00:26:09] Speaker B: Empathy. [00:26:09] Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely. [00:26:10] Speaker B: They're both. Empathy and the stoicism is what allows you to engage in that model modulation. The stoicism is what allows you to reconnect as much as you think is appropriate in any particular situation and maybe even adjust that level of emotional connection while maintaining the awareness no matter what. [00:26:31] Speaker A: And what's crazy about it is, is that people do it without actually even know that they're doing it right. Or you'll see, you know, the final drive of a Super bowl, and you're on your couch and you're sweating, and you're like, you don't have a best team interested in it. You're just watching it because. And you're sweating, Buck. It's just your heart's racing, and then you see that star qb and they're just serenity. Right? Just, like, completely. And you're just like, holy smokes, man. I'm nervous just eating, you know. You know, this chicken in this pizza here, Right here. Here. This person is like. This is just like. This is their backyard when they're 12 years old. And so it's just amazing that they've. [00:27:09] Speaker B: Learned to slow down the game. [00:27:10] Speaker A: Yes. Yes. [00:27:11] Speaker B: That's. And that's an incredible thing. And it's something we're all capable of. And really, the goal is to just understand it a little bit better so that we could be more intentional, our use of it and use it more often in our lives so we can be more purposeful, more intentional, truer to our own moral code as we make these maneuvers and changes throughout our life? [00:27:31] Speaker A: I ask everybody this question because I guess you don't need me to get any, you know, any accomplishments, like. But where can people find you and learn more about you, your story, your book, and everything that you do? [00:27:43] Speaker B: Appreciate you. And shout out to the city of Detroit if there's anybody from Detroit. I'm sure it's a. It's nationally broadcast, but I do. I do have a particular appreciation for Detroit, y' all. I'm online, so it's very easy to find me if you just Google stoic empathy. I come up. If you Google my name, which sadly, is impossible to pronounce and spell. Sherman Cruz. I'll come up. I do have a website, which, of course, I branded with my impossible to pronounce and spell name because that was excellent marketing on my part. [00:28:14] Speaker A: You see this thing right here? [00:28:16] Speaker B: There you go. [00:28:17] Speaker A: You're right, you know, so. [00:28:18] Speaker B: Www.charmainecruise.com and the book stoic empathy should be available everywhere. Amazon, target, your local bookstore, wherever you want to get it. [00:28:28] Speaker A: Well, I can promise you I'm not much of a reader. Full disclosure. Right. You know, but there's an audiobook. There's an audiobook. Okay. Yeah, I was going to say that I will be getting the book in some manner or form because you know, I love the energy you give off. Your time is very valuable and for you to carve out this little space in the earth for this, this, this guy's show is a, is a wonderful thing and I'm honored to have had you on here. [00:28:51] Speaker B: The honor is mine, my friend. Thank you for having me on. [00:28:54] Speaker A: I appreciate you. This is share crews on the ramness of nothing. Everyone have a wonderful day and thank you so much for your time. [00:29:00] Speaker B: Take care. [00:29:00] Speaker A: You too. Well, I hope that sat.