Ryan Jones

[00:00:01] Speaker A: Welcome, everyone. This is Rashad, back with the Tron podcast. The guest we have today is a very accomplished doctoral candidate and health and wellness advocate, as well as establishing his own practice for people to assist them in mental health reaching their better selves. I have Mr. Ryan Allen Jones with me. Thank you so much for your time, sir. [00:00:22] Speaker B: Hello, sir. Rashad, thank you for having me on. [00:00:25] Speaker A: That's. That's awesome. So you have such a fascinating background. First of all, your polymath, which I wasn't sure was ever a term. I'll be totally honest with you, I had to research it before I got on here. And you're a doctoral candidate, so can you just explain a little bit of your background, what polymath is, and kind of how you got into your field? [00:00:41] Speaker B: Yeah, so I've always had a really diverse set of interests. I'm not someone who like, found one thing and was like, oh, it's gonna be my thing forever. I. I've always been, whether it's the little bit of ADHD or what have you, I've always been really fascinated by many things. And so I find myself in the position of kind of an integrative thinker where I see connections between fields. And so I studied yoga for a long time. I went to acting school. And so I've kind of been enmeshed in the. There's this idea in emergence coaching that you are a biopsychosocial being. So you're a. You're a body mind and the set of relationships, you know, between the mind and the body, but you're also a set of like human social relationships. [00:01:28] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:01:28] Speaker B: So I've just been like, yeah, fascinated forever with all the different pieces that we're composed of and how they interrelate with one another and the practices that help us develop kind of a comprehensive sense of satisfaction in our life and help health and well being and that sort of thing. [00:01:50] Speaker A: So when you got into that field, and I don't mean to get too personal, a lot of people had to go through certain stages to get to that point in life where they said, you know, I can help. Because either, A, I went through this, B, somebody was close to me who went through something, or I saw enough of it up close that I decided this was my best field of interest because I became a subject matter expert because of that field. Was there anything that kind of molded you to go in that direction of how you developed these skills there? [00:02:18] Speaker B: Certainly I. I've been really privileged in this life. I've not, I've not Had anything, like, really traumatic happen to me. I have not struggled with addiction. I've always been very sensitive to what I was feeling. And I think, like, for better or for worse, I think especially in, like, masculine spaces, especially as a child, that's kind of like, very hard. It's. It's kind of hard to be a sensitive, like, young man. [00:02:42] Speaker A: I don't mean to interrupt, but it seems like it's gotten better now. [00:02:45] Speaker B: I would agree. I think, I think the kind of, like, the masculine crisis that we're in right now is resolving in the direction of men embracing a little more femininity, a little more of the, of the, the feeling and the receiving kind of, like, aspect of what it is to be human. And so I think that those, that, that, that, that I was gifted with, that was something that led me to, like, man, like, how do I make my body feel beautiful? How do I make my relationships feel beautiful? How do I, like, engage my mind in a beautiful way? How do I. How do I love myself and other people? And so it's like, I started off, you know, I was really interested in, like, Eastern spirituality and like, peace and meditation and love and. And then as an actor, like, studying people and just like, getting really value neutral about people, like judgment neutral. Like this. Oh, this is, this is what you want. This is what's in the way. This is what you're choosing in order to get what you want. Like, it just kind of like removing the, the kind of morality from humans and human behavior. [00:03:54] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah. [00:03:55] Speaker B: Has really helped me see myself and other people, I don't know, a little more with more compassion. [00:04:03] Speaker A: So, so you saw, you used, you. You studied various methods, you know, Eastern methods in yoga. Did you find any different stress factors that are, like Americans, they've always said are the most stressed people in the world. Right. You know, did you find that when you were researching that people live longer with certain lifestyles in certain other territories, countries, lifestyles? And how did you kind of make sure that you were gearing yourself towards betterment of self? [00:04:30] Speaker B: So I know in my, in my practice right now there are kind of 2. There are a handful of factors, again, that kind of interrelate with one another. [00:04:40] Speaker A: Right. [00:04:42] Speaker B: So we each have a belief system, this kind of. This, like, matrix of beliefs that we form in early childhood based on our kind of relationship with our caregivers. And in those relationships, we learn about what we can expect from other people and what other people can expect from us. And so that has to do with self worth and what we believe is possible. And so then as we go out into the world, we are seeing everything that happens through that framework of beliefs. And again, that's kind of like morality. Neutral beliefs aren't good or bad or true or false. They're more or less useful depending on our situation. And to the extent that our matrix limits what's possible for us, limits who we're allowing ourselves to be or what we allow ourselves to experience, that's the degree to which we experience this kind of like existential frustration of like, I'm not good enough, I don't have enough. I'm. I'll. There's something wrong with me. Like, to the extent that we experience that emotionally is the extent to which we are stressed out because something's wrong. You know, so, so a lot of my practice right now has to do with catching the limiting belief structures, catching the feelings that are coming up that are kind of. The feelings are like friction. They're like a friction between our desires that drive us kind of like our divinity. What's, what's aching to come out of us and, and the kind of boxes that we've created for ourselves. [00:06:21] Speaker A: Well, I think too, to kind of piggyback off of that is that people oftentimes relieve stress in the incorrect manners. Right. So they end up drinking or eating more. Right. They end up doing things that they think are a temporary, it's a temporary relief kind of a situation. As opposed to your method where you're like, no, you need to get to the root cause of self to actually get that out of your body as a whole. And I only say that because, you know, I do martial arts. Right. And so a lot of times you'll have either like a quick meditation period or they'll tell you, quote, unquote, don't fight angry. Right. Spar, angry. So, but it's always a great. But I think your, your method is less. Make sure that you don't self destruct and do something to the point of self harm, meaning indulgence. I'm not talking, you know, obviously people can do other things, but I think you hit some very important points on that. [00:07:12] Speaker B: Yeah, well, and I think you're nailing something right there, which is like part of how stress becomes dysfunctional because we're actually, we're designed to be stressed out. Like, stress is actually really good for us. It helps us grow, it lets us know that we're being challenged by something. But to the extent that we're coping with stress, with patterns that actually take us away from what we're feeling as opposed to. Into what we're feeling. To the extent that we use video games. Absolutely. Numbing out with video games is my bread and butter. Absolutely. Let me disassociate from what's going on. [00:07:46] Speaker A: Absolutely. [00:07:47] Speaker B: But to the extent that we're engaged with those patterns, we're, we're limiting ourselves. We're. Yeah, we're, we're, we're. We're hurting ourselves. [00:07:56] Speaker A: Well, the other thing you mentioned earlier too, which I thought was very powerful because a couple, it, it started getting brought up. I saw it in numerous articles. It said that especially when it comes to men, we talked about the masculinity or being more emotions and things like that. They said that there's a large pattern of male loneliness that happens in people. Right. And if you actually think about it, and you know, there's difference between alone and lonely and I understand there's differences in it, but there is actually like there was a gentleman they talked about that was formerly in the military, got separated, you know, from friends, from college and in the military, started his life, etc and then he moved with his wife and children and then he found out he had no male friends. Right. He had actually. And you actually start thinking about that and you realize that he would, he started doing meeting groups with other grown men, you know, just talking and the group got larger and larger and larger and you're like, holy smokes. You know. So to your point, it's become more acceptable and that has to be helpful. [00:08:50] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. I think that we had a, we have, we have a historical pattern again in like, like the system of our society where men are discouraged from being intimate with one another, with, with anyone other than a female like partner. And there are various kind of like behavioral patterns that reinforce that, that loneliness. [00:09:13] Speaker A: Right. [00:09:14] Speaker B: And then we're encouraged to disengage from our, our feelings. We're encouraged toward like achievement and an aggressive pursuit of external reward. And there are very good reasons for that. It's like from, for, for how many thousands of years did we need men? Men needed to be disconnected from what they felt so that they could do really, really difficult, dangerous, potentially lethal things so that they could protect the people around them and serve the people around them. So it's a. We have to be super grateful for these patterns too because they, they're what got us here. [00:09:50] Speaker A: That's ultimately how the world was built. Right? That's ultimately. Right. You know, through, through very, you know, various acts. That's how society evolved. Right. The good, the bad and the ugly. Right. That's how ultimately you have buildings and spaceships and all the fancy technologies behind it that are. That are associated with that. [00:10:09] Speaker B: Yeah, but that's this. This kind of 20th century pushback against the kind the patriarchy is. This kind of like this way we have of being men is increasingly dysfunctional, and so we need to find ways to be in touch with ourselves and with one another. And just what you're pointing out, those men's groups where people get to sit and talk and like men just get to talk and be with one another. Those are so, like, I've never been at an event like that that didn't feel totally nourishing, just like where everybody was just like, I'm just so glad to be here. I'm so, like, grounded being here with you. Like. [00:10:53] Speaker A: Right. And they showed guys and, you know, and I'm sure you can speak better on this. Guys who were divorced, guys who were widowed, you know, and. And things like that where you realize that they actually needed somebody to talk to. Not even in just. Just to be able to have something to relate to. Right. You know, just to be able to sit back. These are the. These are the challenges of my everyday life. And what. And you find commonality, and then you'll find out that there's data to prove that people who do that live longer. [00:11:21] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah. Well, and. And like, it's just that it's like, if I'm lonely, I believe I'm alone and I believe that I can't relate to anyone. No one can relate to me. And so just the evidence of like, oh, you go through that too, like, that's huge. That's a big deal. [00:11:40] Speaker A: Sure. So your services that you offer. [00:11:43] Speaker B: Yeah, the website is www.raj.coach. [00:11:49] Speaker A: Okay, got it. So I got a chance to look at your services, and it seems like you're the type of person that really like, found themselves, whether it's dealing with nature or being outdoors and really being able to connect with your. With your spirituality. And you have clients. Can you describe like a. A typical client in the coaching session and kind of the breaking of the ice they would do when they call you for services? [00:12:11] Speaker B: So first, I wouldn't say I have a typical client. I. One of my challenges as a coach actually has been just this messaging about niche. Like, find your niche, find your. Find your. Who's your ideal client? I don't really believe in that. My clients are hungry. They want something to change. They want something for themselves. And that can manifest in a myriad of different ways. But as Far as a coaching session is concerned, it's kind of like this actually, where there's a role distinction that's very important that we don't have in this conversation. But it's just a conversation and it's the. You and I sit down and you share with me where you're headed today, what you want to get out of our conversation. And then I listen to you and I reflect you to yourself. And there's a humanistic psychologist called, named Carl Rogers who had this idea of unconditional positive regard where if you, if you sit with someone and you're being with them and, and you treat them like they're okay and, and they don't need to be fixed. There's nothing wrong with them that people will, People as. As a process. They will self organize into the version of themselves that is. That feels better as opposed to going. [00:13:36] Speaker A: Down point A, B, C. Yo, you know, we need to fix this. [00:13:40] Speaker B: We need to fix that. [00:13:41] Speaker A: Yeah, right, right, right. [00:13:43] Speaker B: So it's really about, it's really about love. It's about love and compassion and like, and we will have, we'll. We'll get to the mistaken beliefs. We'll create strategies. You know, you'll have assignments, we'll. We'll make changes in your life, but it'll be about you becoming more yourself. You acknowledging and being with what you're feeling and accepting who you are. And that's how you change. [00:14:06] Speaker A: Do you have any, have you ever had any companies that reach out to you? Like, you know, like, hey, I think this would be beneficial to my staff, you know, as from an organizational HR standpoint, and that there's an avenue that they can. Because I think that would be helpful to companies, right. To have like a. Is that, is that something that you think you would grow, they would morph into eventually, kind of organically? [00:14:26] Speaker B: Yeah, I think I'd, I'd be delighted to work with an organization. I think that'd be a lot of fun. It's not such an opportunity, has not presented itself yet, but I'm definitely open to that. And even you have. So you've the people in the organization and then the organization, Organization itself is a, is a, is a being, is a system. And so you can, you can coach the organization like via the individuals and their relationships and the systemic the operations. Like you can help an organization become what it could be. Correct. [00:14:59] Speaker A: And maybe it's because they just missed that one potential avenue with their employees, so to speak. [00:15:04] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:15:05] Speaker A: So. So I had to ask you because I had never Heard of this. What's the Wim Hof technique? I looked up some. [00:15:11] Speaker B: Yeah, Wim Hof is a wild man. So he's so he's this, he's this like Norse like dude. He's probably a little on the spectrum, but he just decided one day when he was a like a 20 year old that like I need to be in cold water. I just like have to be in cold water. I need it. It's like medicine. He's like a, he's like a shaman. He. So he, he, he set a bunch of world records around cold exposure. Just like holding his breath under cold water, doing a marathon barefoot in, in like Siberia, like climbing mountains barefoot, bare chested. So. So. And he developed this method of cold exposure and breath work that, that is kind of the reason we are thinking that's in the Zeitgeist right now. There's this like cold plunge thing happening. Yeah, that's all because of Wim Hof. [00:16:03] Speaker A: Okay. [00:16:04] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:16:05] Speaker A: It was crazy because. And then it looks like there's forced hyperventilation and then it's. It's been proven a technique to actually reduce stress and everything like that. [00:16:13] Speaker B: Yeah, you get a multi hour boost of like, of happy chemicals like dopamine and serotonin. So it's great for depression. It's like. Yeah, it's like really, really fantastic for like just kind of balancing your emotional state. And then for me there's a strong spiritual component. I've, I've just had, I've had really. I've done, I've done a lot of work with psychedelics. Not so much anymore. But like earlier kind of in my journey I did, I did a lot of work with that and, and just the like especially going from hot to cold and doing the breath work, I get really high. I get really like, like spiritually like connected to something. I got like messages. [00:16:59] Speaker A: So. So how do you, how do you adapt to somewhat to going from. From normal body temperature. The human body is what, 98.6 degrees? 99. Roughly between 97.9 and 99 degrees I believe. How do you actually safely drop your body temperature from the normal extreme to that? Like is there stages involved in something like that? Because a lot of people could pass out. I'm guessing I would. [00:17:24] Speaker B: So the, as far as the like developing a practice of it is concerned, a nice starting point is like just dial into the cold at the end of the shower. Just like turn it down as cold as you can and be in there. You know, be in there for a minute and Then turn it off and get out and towel off. That's a nice place to start. The body has a really strong survival response to being exposed to cold like that. And the reality is that it's actually not very dangerous in the immediate term, in the short term. But you know, if you think about, if you think like 10,000 years ago, if you got dunked in cold water and your clothes were soaked, you'd be screwed, you know? Right. So with, with modern conveniences and towels and preparation, it's actually very safe to do. But the body still experiences this spike of like, oh, God, this is really scary. So once you pass through that, it's like, I mean, like, you know, you mentioned martial arts like jiu jitsu. It's like when you're getting, when you're getting choked out, that's the scary. You know, the body's freaking, the body's freaking out about it 50%. You're very safe. You're with a partner. You love this guy probably, and, and, and get along. Yeah. But, but it's the scariest thing you'll do all week. So everything else is pretty chill. Everything else that happens to you, it really puts things into perspective. [00:18:56] Speaker A: Well, it's funny you mentioned that. Right. Because. So, you know, I do martial arts, right. So I have a, I have a black belt and tang sudo. [00:19:02] Speaker B: Oh, cool. [00:19:03] Speaker A: I have a, I have a brown belt and taekwondo and I take Brazilian jiu jitsu and Muay Thai. So, you know, as far as standing up, it's all, I mean, obviously all of them have their specific techniques, but there's variances in each. With a kick, you can throw a kick and you can change it up for that style. There's nothing quite like you said when you're about to pass out and you're getting choked out. And anybody who's done jiu jitsu and said they've never been choked out is lying to you. They're just, they're lying to you because to your point, your body goes in that middle freak out mode where you're like, it's really happening. And then it's, you're out. You're just out, you know. So that's kind of a cool correlation. [00:19:42] Speaker B: Yeah, well, yeah, it's that funny. Like, I don't know. When I was a white belt, I got a really great piece of advice that was just like, chill out and watch the person dismantle you. Like, don't try, don't, don't fight so hard. It's like, chill, chill. They're Going to dismantle you whether you like it or not. So just like relax a little bit, watch it happening so that you can learn. And like, it's like, it's that sort of thing in the cold too. It's like, okay, body, you're safe. Nothing bad is going to happen. You can be with this intense feeling, this intense sensation. You can be with that. And then eventually you kind of pass through the panic and you get to this really like super high, blissful, like relaxed kind of state of being where you're like, your body's accepted this experience and. And then you get all the happy chemicals and then you get out freaking cold. [00:20:39] Speaker A: So how did, how does an average, how does a person who realizes. How do they reach out to you? And what stage in life are they kind of at? You know, do they sit back and say, I've done, I'm here. And I realize I can't kind of compartmentalize this on my own, so to speak. [00:20:53] Speaker B: Yeah, I think, I think a lot of people come to me at a time when they need to transition. They're either transition's forced where they, they lose a job, they lose a relationship. Something happens that causes them to be in kind of a crisis, an existential crisis. Like, what do I do? Who am I? Or there's kind of this longer burn of like, man, I am in a rut and I don't know what to do with myself. Like, I don't know who am I becoming? Like, like, what is, is this all that life is? Is this life I've created or is there something more? I think those are kind of the two circumstances people tend to fall into. [00:21:31] Speaker A: Right? Yeah, because it seems like there would be, you know, there's that euphoric 18 to 25 year period for most. First of all, are most of your clients men? [00:21:42] Speaker B: I'd say it's about 5050, actually. Yeah, yeah, yeah. [00:21:47] Speaker A: Okay. So as far as men are concerned, it seems like they're what we described earlier. What's, what is? And I know you don't have any particular female client. What do they usually come with you at when it comes to women? [00:21:58] Speaker B: Oh, do you mean like age range? [00:22:00] Speaker A: Like questions like, you know, I have this going on. Is it kind of similar in both avenues when it comes to men and women? [00:22:06] Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, everyone comes with a little something different. So I've got, I'll use two case studies. So I have one young man I was working with and he's a comedian, he's an improviser living in Chicago. And when he came to me, this was early in the pandemic. He was having trouble keeping down a job. He had a bunch of really kind of like abusive work relationships that weren't working for him. He wasn't making it the way he wanted to. And he was just like, this isn't working. And through our work together, he moved home. He found a job in the service industry that he was like, I can sink my teeth into this. And over the course of a couple years, he's lost 50 pounds, he's dating in a way that he never kind of could before, and he's got a job he loves. He's been promoted a couple times and he's now like, okay, I've done this a couple years, but there's got to be more. So now I'm looking for a new job. I'm looking for something. But he's coming from this place where he's got this strong sense of ethic and, and his own value and he's getting back into comedy again. [00:23:24] Speaker A: Yeah, he found his foundation to where he can build himself kind of back up. [00:23:28] Speaker B: Exactly. So that's like, that's one person and then, and then another person, female, just getting into jiu jitsu, loves the competition, perfectionist. And, and in a series of, I guess abusive relationships is sort of a theme here, but like in a series of abusive romantic relationships over the course of our working together, she's gone from white belt to purple belt. She just won a big tournament, which was a big deal for her. She's been navigating the kind of, the self flagellation of losing and failing and just learning how to accept failure and grow from it and the consequences. She's performing a lot better. She's way less anxious. She found a full time job doing what she loves in the world of jiu jitsu, which is just like wild. So it's the sort of thing where people come and they, they, they have this kind of like longing and then, and then through kind of working on themselves and their relationship to their, themselves and what they feel and how they, how they, how they cope with what they feel that they're able to move into the direction they want to be going in. [00:24:40] Speaker A: Got it. Got it. [00:24:42] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:24:42] Speaker A: Where did you get your, your, your undergraduate degree? I know you're a doctorate candidate obviously right now, but where did you get your undergraduate degree? [00:24:51] Speaker B: So I, first time around I was at Cal State University, Fullerton in the acting bfa. I didn't finish my coursework there. I finished the acting program But I didn't do my, my, the rest of my credits because I was a, I was a wild man. I just wanted to go world. So went out and then, and then I, through my. When I kind of came into this kind of like particular field of social emotional intelligence and personal development, I did a, I did a year long course and at the end of that course I was like I want to be a doctor. I want to, I want to go back. I want to finish my, my bachelor's. So I got my undergrad at Union University, which is an online online university and organizational leadership. And then, and then I did this master's program in transformational leadership and coaching. And then, and then now I'm in the doctorate. [00:25:42] Speaker A: Got it. [00:25:42] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:25:43] Speaker A: That's awesome man. That's fantastic. Do you, do you work with any, do you work with kids or is it just a certain, is that something you don't do? [00:25:50] Speaker B: I haven't worked with kids. I mean I've taught, I've like taught kids classes in my past. So I've. But I've not done any of this work with kids. We've been, for the purposes of the dissertation, we've been discouraged from working with anyone underage really. The program is focused on adult development. But I've studied plenty of kind of childhood development and educational kind of models. [00:26:15] Speaker A: So always ask people two questions. And this is because this is one thing is about AI. Has AI helped or hurt your, your business when it comes to helping people or is there a methodology that is. Involves artificial intelligence? [00:26:33] Speaker B: I think that AI is a really cool tool for small business people. Cause it just like it just allows you to do things that you couldn't do alone. Um, and it's, it's chat. GPT is very accessible. So I think that there are, there are ways to use the tool that, that, that I can, that I can leverage as a coach to help me grow my business. And, and one of the benefits, one of the, the I, I think my field is a little AI proof because although you can develop a program that will kind of help people that can, that can reflect people to themselves. Right. You can, you can build a program that can interpret language through text and that sort of thing. Yeah, there's something really special about the talking to someone. Well and even someone else's brain is over there. And something that happens in the coaching conversation is that we, we. There's actual research that's shown that our brain patterns begin to begin to kind of like resonate with one another and that, and that the. So Ed Tronick wrote a paper called Dyadically Expanded States of Consciousness. [00:27:46] Speaker A: Okay. [00:27:47] Speaker B: Where he studied mothers and their children and he studied their brain patterns, and he showed that the, the brain of the developing child borrows the frontal lobe activity of the mother. [00:28:00] Speaker A: Oh, wow. [00:28:01] Speaker B: So the child is writing their code off of mom due to the proximity. And there's. Further research has shown that a similar sort of thing happens in the therapeutic relationship where the client will borrow the kind of like the integrated mental brain activity of the therapist in a, in a, in a relation, in a relationship where there's mutuality and compassion. [00:28:31] Speaker A: Right, Absolutely. And then my second thing is, is that kind of, it's kind of a two pronged question. The same question, has the Internet, as far as your field, helped? Because now people have been more able to share stories and backgrounds. But the second leg to that is, has it hurt as well, too? Being that now maybe the Internet isn't the answer to your questions and you need to reach out to people and. Or everybody's suddenly a subject matter expert because, you know, they have a, they have a Twitter or TikTok following. [00:29:01] Speaker B: Yeah. I would say on one hand, obviously, I mean, Zoom makes my business possible. Like, I have clients in California. I have clients in D.C. i've, I've. So I've. [00:29:13] Speaker A: Beautiful. [00:29:14] Speaker B: It's, it's, it's, it's made it possible for me to like, work with people all over the place, which is super cool. I think it, I think it's difficult to establish oneself as a subject matter expert because of the noise online. And so you sort of have to. Something I'm practicing is just like, trusting that my voice, that people will hear me and recognize the value in what I have to say and that that'll be enough. [00:29:46] Speaker A: Absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. And the thing is too, is that kind of you as a person and as a, you know, not. I don't utilize those services. But the one thing I did when I researched you was I did my homework. Right. Does the person have clients? They have a page. Do they have testimonials? Are there people, you know, do they have YouTube and interviews with other people? So just in my brief, you know, foray into this because, you know, there's a lot more insurance didn't used to cover mental health. Right. Now it does. Right. So there's, there's avenues that have allowed people. But people looking for people who are credible can certainly be steered in the wrong direction if they don't do their homework. Right. So, no, your services are awesome, you know, and it just, you know, it just was like, you know, when he's talking about psychedelics and you're talking about martial arts, and it's like, I'm kind of picturing this guy, like, outside, just kind of just one with the universe. And it just seemed really fascinating to me when you messaged. [00:30:40] Speaker B: Thanks, man. Yeah, that's. In my ideal version of myself. I'm really tuned in with what's actually happening, and I can help other people tune into what's going on. And, like, that's all I'm hoping to do. [00:30:58] Speaker A: That's awesome. Well, you know, and I appreciate so much of your time and the services you offer. It's obviously such a great cause. And it seems like, more importantly, your reach is going beyond your geographical area because you have a website. You got customers that are, you know, clients, excuse me, that are reaching, you know, around the country for you. So I thank you for that. Is there any question that you have for me in particular before we, you know, wrap this up? [00:31:26] Speaker B: What. I mean, obviously, this conversation was. I really enjoyed this conversation with you. Thank you for. For having me on. [00:31:34] Speaker A: Thank you for contacting me. I'm not interesting enough to a lot of people, but you decided I was, so. [00:31:38] Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely. Well, and. And I wonder, like, what. What. What is this podcast becoming for you? What's the. Where are you headed with this? [00:31:48] Speaker A: So it's so funny because I get asked that question a lot. So I was like, you know, when I was thinking in my head, you know, I was like, okay, I'll call it the Tron Podcast. The Randomness of Nothing, right? Because I thought. And I've said this to other people who I've interviewed. I'm not smart enough to do what you do. I'm not smart enough to be a mechanic. I'm not smart enough to be a chef. I don't have those intimate skills. But the one thing that always fascinated me was I always like to learn things. I'll watch documentaries I get on the YouTube wormhole. I like random facts and information. You know, I can get. You know, I'll watch a documentary on the building of the Eiffel Tower, right? Or, you know, or I'll learn about the Colossus of Rhodes or something like that, right? And I'll just be like, yo. Like. And I just know. Stupid. That. Stupid stuff like that, that may not be interesting to the average person until. But then when you talk to somebody like you, you're like, dude, keep going, keep going, keep going, keep going. And then I found out, well, If I'm not smart enough to do those other things, I can talk to much smarter people than me who are subject matter experts, and I can pick their brain and maybe they'll share their brain and their time with me. It's been pretty good so far because it's been a wonderful journey. So I just said, you know what? For lack of a better term, I'm a curious guy whose head just wants to learn. [00:32:57] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. Well, I mean, like, and like him or luck or, or hate him, you know, that's Joe Rogan's magic. Is that. [00:33:04] Speaker A: Exactly, exactly. [00:33:06] Speaker B: He's, he's really willing to listen and learn. And so I think, I think you got a winning formula there. [00:33:12] Speaker A: And, you know, and the biggest thing about it is, is that you always come in with the. If you don't explore anything more than what's 10ft in front of you, it becomes a very small place where you live, a very small place where you live. Right. If you have to look past the grocery store on the corner, you have to look past the car that's driving in front of you. Right. And, you know, before, and I don't know how old you are, you could only open up an encyclopedia. There was no Internet at certain ages in life. Now you're like, yo, that's fascinating. I can get that information right now. You know, when I had an encyclopedia, you know, my parents used to buy it, but you know, you could have a 10 year old version of an encyclopedia. It can be 10 years old. Right. It didn't have the most current information. It was cool you had one. But, you know, it could have been, you know, the 1992 version. And you're in 1996. [00:34:02] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:34:04] Speaker A: Now there's no excuse not to know stuff. [00:34:06] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah. Well, and, and the, that you have a commitment to lifelong learning, I think is the. It's one of the most important things that an adult can possess is a desire to continue to learn and grow. [00:34:23] Speaker A: It's been proven people live longer when they think about stuff and they read about stuff. It's just, It's a fact. It's a pure 100 fact. [00:34:30] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:34:30] Speaker A: So. And you certainly made me think, because, you know, I might need to jump and take a cold shower, to be honest. [00:34:36] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:34:38] Speaker A: That'll be a leap of faith, man. I'll tell you that. I'm conditioned to a nice warm shower, man. [00:34:44] Speaker B: Trying to stand for one minute. [00:34:46] Speaker A: That's a long time. [00:34:47] Speaker B: One minute. Once you get through that first minute, it's all, it's all. It's all easy after that. [00:34:52] Speaker A: Well, it's so funny, right? Like, just briefly, like, you do jiu Jitsu, right? And I. I do jiu jitsu. I do Muay Thai. When people say, you know, spar somebody for three minutes, I don't think the average person realizes how long. Three minutes. Truly. I mean, it is a lifetime. [00:35:07] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:35:07] Speaker A: Fighting some. It's a lifetime. Fighting somebody, it really, truly is. It's crazy. So, no, man, I can't thank you enough for your. [00:35:15] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. Thank you, Rashad. This is a pleasure. Thank you.