Clifton Skelliter - Prolific Indigenous entrepreneur & creator

[00:00:00] Speaker A: Ladies and gentlemen of the Tron podcast, the randomness of nothing. I gotta be honest with you, this guy is absolutely a force of nature. And it is honor a pleasure to be able to talk to the CEO, founder of Sky Story Creative and Indigenous Core. I would like to thank very much, Cliff Skelitzer for being here. [00:00:17] Speaker B: I like that. I like that. It's. It's nice, you know, a force of nature. That's a good compliment. That's a beautiful way to start this. Rashad. Rashad's dope. Okay, I know that you guys watch this show already, but, like, talking, like, for first couple of minutes with him, I'm like, I like Rashad. Rashad's my boy. I don't even know. I don't even know where you live in the world. We haven't even gotten that far. [00:00:39] Speaker A: I live just outside of Detroit. Right, so you're out of Sudbury. [00:00:43] Speaker B: Right, so I'm out of Sudbury. I spent time in this neighborhood, though. I. I spent time, like, right outside. So Windsor. My best friend. Sorry, I hope I'm not throwing you off with this. [00:00:53] Speaker A: I got a. What we do. [00:00:54] Speaker B: I got a story right off the hop, though. Okay. So, you know, we both, you know, talked about. We grew up in the 80s and 90s, right? And so my best friend growing up, his dad was a cop in Windsor, right outside of Detroit. So on the Canadian side, very familiar with it. And what's that? [00:01:15] Speaker A: My wife's Canadian. [00:01:16] Speaker B: Oh, beautiful. Well, you know what you're doing then. You know what's up? Just answer this question right away. Canadians don't hate Americans. We love America. We love Americans. Don't get it twisted. [00:01:28] Speaker A: Yeah, there's definitely. You know, it's funny, I mean, like, your guys's version of a large drink is significantly different from ours, right? So, like, it's like, you know, like, ours is like, you know, the size of, like, two hands. Yours is like the size of, like, a hand. You're like, dude, where's the rest of the drink, man? Right, yeah, bigger in the U.S. like burgers, you know, drinks, things like that. So your guys. Yeah, your size is way different, man. [00:01:51] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, that's right. That's right. We use different systems of measurement, right? So that. That's what messes us up a little bit. Right? But so I'm. So. My boy is like. He, you know, we. We. Me and this guy, we grew up tight since we were kids. Rob. Rob Ford. I'll call him out right now. Rob Ford's his actual name. And if you know anything about there's a Rob Ford that was a mayor of Toronto, that very well known, infamous, infamous dude. But that's not my guy. So we grew up together, and our connection, I mean, our moms were, like, tight friends, but both of our dads were from Trinidad. Okay. And so that's where we connected. Right. So, like, on my mother's side, you know, from a cultural heritage point of view, is indigenous. Ojibwe, Potawatomi. [00:02:35] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:02:35] Speaker B: My people wandered the Great Lakes, but also from another side, you know, Trinidad, you know, my people were brought over there, but that's a whole other story for another day. And so my boy Rob, his dad was a police officer in Windsor. And so one summer, I just. We were so tight, I missed my boy, right? He goes out. He goes out to Windsor. And so my mom just could tell I was bummed and sent me out there for the summer. So I spent a summer out there. I feel like I. In my mind, I lived there. I was like, two, three months. That's for a kid that's living. [00:03:08] Speaker A: That's living. [00:03:10] Speaker B: That's living there. And so I'm up in Sudbury. Okay. This is like early 90s. This is 90s. Okay. Sorry. We just didn't have the same access to shoes you guys had. I admired the shoes. I envied shoes. I love the. The culture of shoes back then, but I couldn't afford good shoes. And there wasn't a lot of shoe stores here in this city near me. I get out there, and this is, like, the best, like, experience. I get out there just wearing my whatever shoes I would have. Who knows, they were even called. And me and Rob are walking down and, like, in Sudbury, we think we're, like, cool. [00:03:47] Speaker A: And you think you're like, top of the world. [00:03:49] Speaker B: We're on top of the world. We're like, you know, we think we're cool. We're into hip hop. We're like. We got our. A. Swagger and stuff. That's right. Now we're out here, and I think we're on the Detroit. I think we're on the Detroit side. I. I feel like for the sake of this story, let's say we were. [00:04:04] Speaker A: Okay, and we're walking. [00:04:06] Speaker B: We're trying to walk with a little swagger, but it's a little different. Like, this is a different vibe from Sudbury. Like, Sudbury, small town. [00:04:11] Speaker A: You know what I'm saying? [00:04:12] Speaker B: Like, we got, like 170, 000 people here. Like, Max, like, right? This is a very different vibe. But you still try to carry the swagger, you know, however old. 13, 14 years old. And we walk across a group of four or five black kids. [00:04:28] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:04:28] Speaker B: And they got real swagger, okay? They got, they got. They got a. Rashad, Rashad. They got Detroit swagger. [00:04:38] Speaker A: And what. That's fantastic. And so that's different. And you had nothing. You had nothing on it, dude. [00:04:43] Speaker B: They started laughing. They started laughing the second they got close to me. Hey, Rashad, did you grow up in Detroit? [00:04:53] Speaker A: I grew up outside of Detroit. I live in. I grew up in Romulus. You know, where the airport is. That's where I grew up at. So. [00:04:59] Speaker B: Okay, I just checking in to see if you checking in to see if you were one of those kids. I tracked you down. [00:05:04] Speaker A: Listen, full disclosure on this show, anybody that, like, I will never perpetrate or fake on this show, anybody who thought I had swag growing up, I will not lie. I will get called out in a hot minute. [00:05:14] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, swagless. [00:05:16] Speaker A: I had a fade in like, eighth grade, right? So. [00:05:18] Speaker B: Dude, that's dope. No, it was. [00:05:21] Speaker A: No, it was not. You know what I'm saying? Like, I mean, but you know, like, like I said, the randomness. Me. No, no, no. [00:05:27] Speaker B: I want to see those pictures, dude. [00:05:29] Speaker A: Man. Total ab. I was a guy who could play basketball, but I also enjoyed reading encyclopedia. So I had no swag. And anybody. [00:05:36] Speaker B: Well, that's the only place we got information. Guys, there's somebody. Kids are listening right now. They're like, encyclopedia. [00:05:41] Speaker A: Yeah, Google, you know? Google, yeah. Like that. That stack of books that was in like, the study room or like your. Your bedroom or basement or, you know, like back when people actually purchased books, right? Like, you know, like, it's always funny, right? When you see pictures of people online, they have all these books in their background. I'm not judging. Maybe people have all read them. I'm like, do you really read those? Or is that like a really cool background photo? [00:06:01] Speaker B: That's right. That's show off. That's decoration, right? [00:06:03] Speaker A: You know, you dive into those books, right? And maybe they do, right? So. But I, I. Listen, man. Like, I'm. I'm. I was swagless, and then in many aspects, I'm still swagless, right? Like, literally so. [00:06:14] Speaker B: Oh, man, I love your show. [00:06:16] Speaker A: To talk to swagless people who just like to do interesting things. You know what I mean? [00:06:20] Speaker B: I love it, dude. Okay. Just finished off the story, though. The. The boys, they pointed down at my shoes and that's what really made them laugh. They were like, this guy's wearing Snikeys. Oh, dude. Dude, dude. Destroyed me. [00:06:37] Speaker A: Oh, my gosh. [00:06:38] Speaker B: Dude. [00:06:38] Speaker A: Well, having said all that in the memory lane and this, man, I could go on this for. For a hot minute. Whatever you didn't have, you gained in life because you went to ctv, you know, for people who aren't listening, that's Canadian television network. Right. Very prominent. And if you. [00:06:54] Speaker B: Biggest one in the country. [00:06:56] Speaker A: Correct. And so, you know, and the other portion about it is too, is that you two, you parlayed that career into a very successful entrepreneurial career. And what was fascinating with me diving into your background is you take your cultural roots and you get to tell your own story, but you also dive into other cultures as well, too. And you've done some amazing things. So please, can you talk about all these endeavors? [00:07:19] Speaker B: Yeah, it's always hard to accept when somebody says you've had a very successful career. That's a really kind thing to say, Rashad. And I would say I've had a interesting career. I've had a career full of ups and downs. I think that's relatable to anybody that's done this for any period of time. If you could see by like the whites in my hair and beard and stuff, I've been doing this a minute. So I'm 20 years in, which is stunning. That in itself. You know, I always remind myself that is the success. Right. Because I've seen my peers come and go over the years. Right. It's hard to stay in this game for a long time. You know, essentially when I left ctv, I was there for a few years, did several things in the building. I started off as a video production company. That's what I thought we were going to be. And really quickly, it was like I was able to use some of my background in communications. That's what I went to school for. And in graphic design and all sorts of, like, different kind of creative and business things. I started being able to. Plus sales, like I was. I had worked in sales in an electronic store for a real, like, for like six years. So I had this amalgamation of skill sets. And so really quickly I started working in branding, brand strategy, marketing, really trying to find the place in there. And it took many, many, many years for me to find my voice. And I'm telling you, it wasn't until, like you think about, I've been doing this for like 20 years. It wasn't until five, six years ago until I really started to understand how important it was to inject my culture into the work that I was doing. I was kind of just doing what everybody else was doing to a certain degree. Yeah, I'm clever, you know, creative work with great people that are the same way do work that on its face looks good and feels good and it's fun. But I really embraced, like, the culture, like, from my indigenous side, the storytelling, from my Trini side, you know, the. The. The music, the. The vibes, the. The. [00:09:15] Speaker A: The. [00:09:15] Speaker B: The feeling, the joy. Right. Like, bringing all of that stuff to the table became important. One of the things I always found I was interested in, Rashad, like, do you know, like. Like, do you know when your family came to the States? [00:09:31] Speaker A: Do you know that I've never, you know, my. My brother looked up a 23 and me once, and I was like, dude, I don't want to do that. Because the only reason I say that is because, you know, they disclose that information to. And I'm not a conspiracy theorist, but I don't know who they give that information to. [00:09:44] Speaker B: That's right. I'm with you on that. [00:09:46] Speaker A: Right. And I'm not saying, like, I'm not hating on knowing your lineage, but I was like, man, I don't, you know, unless I know, like, you can. It can definitively stay with me. Right? Yeah, yeah. There's some sort of, like. But I know that they have to share that with certain things. [00:09:58] Speaker B: That's right. [00:09:59] Speaker A: I wasn't comfortable disclosing that, so I never looked it up, but I would. I am certainly fascinated. [00:10:03] Speaker B: It's also a tricky question to ask people, especially black people in the States. In Canada as well. In Canada. I'm just trying to think. I feel like so many more have come from, like, one of the Caribbean countries, like, recently, like, second, third generation. Right. And so, yeah, I do notice that it's a bit trickier with the States. Right. Because of obvious. The obvious history that we're all aware of. [00:10:31] Speaker A: Of course. Of course. [00:10:32] Speaker B: And so. But I. I found myself always fascinated with that stuff and the stories. And so you know me as a person that I consider myself a design thinker. I'm a brand or I'm a storyteller. As corny as it feels to say storyteller these days, it feels like everyone's saying that. [00:10:50] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. [00:10:51] Speaker B: But it's like, that's what we do. We do these narratives. Right. And it's like I find things that are kind of rooted in some sort of, like, cultural lineage more interesting. And so I inject those into a lot of the projects I work on, whether that's a brand or an art Integration or a complete redesign of a store. Yeah, that's what I. That's what we do. [00:11:09] Speaker A: I saw that and I saw, you know, you had. Did like the transit system for Sudbury as well, too. [00:11:14] Speaker B: That was fun. [00:11:15] Speaker A: That was really. And then the, the basketball team as well, too, up there. [00:11:19] Speaker B: We had fun with that. [00:11:20] Speaker A: That was awesome. [00:11:21] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah, we got our butts kicked a little bit at first. It just. And when I say butt kicks, I mean, as an agency, we got a little bit of local hate. Right. Because naming a team is one of the hardest thing. If you know anything about, like, sports and sports fans and how fickle they could be or how, like, they'll come at you, that's the challenge I was really up to. I love that. Right. I think sometimes, like, you know, if you're not trying a little bit to, like, you don't want to piss off your fan base, but you want to mess with them a little bit. Like, you want to get them riled up because then it feels like it means something. [00:11:56] Speaker A: Right. [00:11:57] Speaker B: And so we kind of went in a different direction with the naming options. We didn't go with some of the obvious choices. And then we ended up in an area and it was really, well, hated at first and then embraced incredibly. And it was actually really cool because one of the people that was online the most talking the most amount of gobbledygoo, I'm trying to, like, curve the amount of swearing I tend to do, he showed up at my office one day with this booklet that he had made. Like, this is how much of a super fan he was of the team. And it had stats and it had these pictures and had all these interesting things. And he goes, I just wanted to offer this as like a olive branch. Like, I know I talked a lot of garbage online and I kind of stick to some of that, but overall, you guys did such an incredible job and it was so fun and it created so much fun for us in the city. And so I was really, I was proud of that. [00:12:53] Speaker A: That's. You know, I think one of the things that, that fascinates me the most is how you dive into the multiple different avenues that you do. And I wanted to talk, you know, obviously particular when it comes to indigenous because, you know, the depictions that you got to see during the, you know, the, the, the, the, the Westerns growing up obviously gave a very certain perspective versus now people get to chance to tell their own stories. Now things are done more respectfully and with more care and more concern of three dimensional characters. Right. So even when you watch a show like 1923. Right. I'm really a big fan of. And then they show those. [00:13:30] Speaker B: Taylor Sheridan's doing a good job so far. [00:13:34] Speaker A: Right. And the story was incredible. Right. And you're looking at that and you're, they're showing those schools. The characters are well fleshed and thought out. It's not, it's not what it was. Right. And I'll leave it at that. So how did you get a chance when you dove into your own background in your own culture, what was that like? Did you discover anything you didn't know already? [00:13:52] Speaker B: I'm discovering something I didn't know every day. That's, that's the indigenous experience here. [00:13:56] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:13:56] Speaker B: When your history gets demolished, right. Gets whitewashed, you know, and what ends up happening, and it's really terrible, but what ends up happening is, like, when you're trying to build a nation, you are trying to, I think these, these people of the past, in their shortsightedness and their lack of empathy, they just really wanted to homogenize everything and make every thing and everybody the same, yet still keep people in certain social statuses. I won't go into, like, a big thing over it. I just, I would just wanted to use that to say I'm always learning new stuff about all sides of my heritage, and I've got a lot of heritage. I'm, you know, jokingly, my friends used to call me the mystery ethnicity because I'm of such mixed heritage and I blend in. I go into different rooms and I get claimed by a lot of different groups. And I'm, I'm super happy. I'm like, yeah, yeah, I'd love to be part of your group. I, I, I'm, I'm not technically, but I would love to be part of it because I do love different cultures. I don't understand the fear, but that's how I was raised. If you were raised to fear the other, you know, and that's my journey of trying to have empathy for the fear of the other. But it's like, once you look through a little bit more, guys look through all of that stuff, like, even the people that are like, you're so suspicious. You're so suspicious of all of these things. Be suspicious of what they taught you about the other and, and, and get connected with, like, you know, an Arabic family or a Jewish family or an African family or whatever it is. I'm telling you, go sit down with them, go have dinner with them, eat their food, have conversations, find out like, they're so at their core, like, they're so similar to you. Like, we're so much the same, but we have our own little spices and flavors and stuff like that. That's dope. Like, let's never get rid of that. [00:16:02] Speaker A: I certainly think that this show has allowed me to reach out to people that I normally wouldn't have, such as yourself, because what are the odds of me being able to talk to a creative force from Sudbury, you know, Ontario, Right. You know, like the average, the average person probably, like, you know, no disrespect from, you know, from your neighbors to the south, would not know what Sudbury meant. Like, I knew right away where you were at. Right. I think my, my wife even has family that's from that area. Don't quote really well. I mean, like extended, not. I mean, yeah, yeah, I've heard people who were from there just in, in passing, in conversation. [00:16:33] Speaker B: Canada's best kept. Canada's best kept secret. That's what I keep telling everybody. It's can't. Hey, hey. Home of 300 lakes, home of lakes. Out here. We got 300 lakes inside this city, dude, we got two lakes. We've got two lakes in our city that are number one and number two, biggest lakes inside city borders in North America. [00:16:55] Speaker A: That's my point. So that's my point. And you know, and those are facts that people just don't know, right? If they're in, if, you know, that's why people get out of their respective postal codes, their respective zip codes, to be able to learn things, discover. And so what I thought was, you know, when we were talking about different cultures and things like that, even, like, and it sounds corny, it can even be done, you know, not necessarily just, you know, talking to somebody or, or, or reading something on the Internet. A movie like Prey, like anybody who's ever seen, like, it's a fantastic movie, right? [00:17:22] Speaker B: So I love it. [00:17:23] Speaker A: You watch the movie. Like, we, you know, the Predator sequels after the Danny Glover one were not that good, right? I love the Danny Glover one. Full disclosure. [00:17:29] Speaker B: No, so did I. I, I thought that was super underrated in la, right? [00:17:33] Speaker A: So, I mean, the Schwarzenegger one needs no, needs no, no explanation greatness of that movie, but the Danny Glover one deserves a lot more credit than it deserves. But then the last couple, you know, over the last two decades were not. [00:17:43] Speaker B: That they were, they were all hot garbage. They were all extremely, extremely studio built. Yeah, there's a difference. [00:17:52] Speaker A: But then you watch Prey and you're like, this is about. And it integrated the French fur trappers that were in the, in your. In the area. And it was told from an indigenous heroic perspective. [00:18:03] Speaker B: Right, Love that. [00:18:04] Speaker A: And it was. And it was a female on top of it. And then you. And then. So you're getting entertained with historical fiction at the same time. And it's a really good movie. And these characters that you normally wouldn't have this be viewed as the hero, be viewed as three dimensional human beings, be viewed as just normal people. [00:18:24] Speaker B: And you know that with the same type of stuff. The same type of stuff. Like the same trying to prove yourself. The same type. It's not monolithic. So I'm gonna give like a recommendation as well, since we're talking like movies and stuff like that. I just finished welcome to Derry, the. [00:18:40] Speaker A: TV series HBO Max. I need to catch that one. [00:18:43] Speaker B: Gotta recommend it. Hardcore. It is so good. And there is an indigenous component to it that I really like. Now I'm gonna say this. These are all things we're referring to that have been made by non indigenous people. But they're great. I will say that. Okay. [00:18:57] Speaker A: Beautiful. [00:18:58] Speaker B: The one thing we need to see more of and that we're starting to see more of, but we need to see even more of it is these, these types of productions being made by indigenous people. Right. And one thing I do love about these people, we're talking about the. Tyler Sheridan's, Dan Trachtenberg, I believe he is for Prey, is, is that they're very respectful. They do the research, they speak with communities, they have consultants, there's elders, knowledge keepers. There's a lot of that involvement. So I do love that they do that. But I also think it's really important to note and I get. Don't, don't quote me on this. I don't know this. I don't know that. Taylor's writing room has an indigenous writer in the writing room. I have read that. I don't know that. So don't quote Cliffy on that. Okay. Don't come at me. Just kidding. Come at me. It'll be fun. [00:19:47] Speaker A: So that is like it. Based on the knowledge that you know that, that you know. [00:19:50] Speaker B: Well, there's a lot of consulting, which is great. That's the thumbs up. I'm saying like that's, that's, that's the thumbs up. I'm 100% giving. But what I do want to see, there's room for improvement. There's always. We can't just accept just enough. We can't just accept one Black Panther movie coming out and us being like oh, everything's solved. Right? Like, it's all fixed. [00:20:12] Speaker A: It's, it's, it's funny. Right. There was Spawn, and I love Michael J. White and the guy, you know, you know, and then, you know. But that did. Okay. It was, it should have been rated R. And then Blade drops and Blade like, shut the whole. Like, I still like to this day watch blade like 500 times. Right. [00:20:27] Speaker B: I love Blade. [00:20:28] Speaker A: Blade was the. It was. I mean, I describe how much I love that movie. But to your point, what's funny, here's a fun fact. Just so you know, Wesley Snipes wanted to make Black Panther back in the 90s. [00:20:38] Speaker B: Yeah. I don't. I remember hearing this. Yeah. [00:20:40] Speaker A: But he just didn't have the. I mean, the movie didn't. Technologically, couldn't be made, you know, with what he needed to get done. So he was like, okay, I'll do Blade instead. But to your point, you know, there's certainly a lot of characters and when people say representation, you know, I know that that can be. You know, one thing this show does is try to stay neutral on controversial topics. Right. But like, you know, it's not even necessarily about representation. You just want to actually have your story told with an actual, living, breathing, three dimensional character. Right? [00:21:09] Speaker B: That's exactly right. [00:21:10] Speaker A: You know, you're asking for your character to be like, you know, like there's more to your culture than victimhood. And I say that very respectful. [00:21:19] Speaker B: Oh, yeah, yeah. 100%. There's a beautiful story. And if we as the different groups are being perceived that way, and I think sometimes people can feel that way. And I think we look at groups as monolithic. I think that. I believe that Indigenous people of North America have been looked at as a monolithic group. And it's not. It's, you know, and I think in the states, there's over 600 communities. In Canada, there's like 500 different communities. These are not all the same people there. There's Mohawk, there's Ojibwe, there's. There's just. I could like. The list will go on so long that everybody tune out of different heritage within Indigenous people in. It's the frontier mix myth. The frontier myth. Right. It's this idea that it's undiscovered territory. It's like, no, no, no. People were living here. There was no frontier. There was no frontier here. There were people living here. That's what happened. [00:22:16] Speaker A: Right. And you know, what I thought was fascinating is even sometimes when you, you know, I. Small cities that you don't even think of when you start looking up the name of it was a tribe, right? [00:22:27] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. [00:22:28] Speaker A: It doesn't even cross your mind until you Google the city. And then, you know, like, for instance, you know, like towns I live near, when you remove one letter from it, suddenly it's like, oh, that was a Native American tribe. Right? [00:22:38] Speaker B: You're like, that's right, that's right. [00:22:40] Speaker A: Or street name. [00:22:41] Speaker B: Right, that's right. I. I watched this one, and I wish I could remember his name, but this young man is Mexican. He's on TikTok, but he talks to other Mexicans and he goes, where do you think you're from? Where do you think that you're from? And they sit there, they go, mexico. No, no. Where do you think your people are from? And they'll be like, Spain. And he'll be like, nah, you're indigenous. [00:23:02] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:23:02] Speaker B: And I don't know, maybe he's a bit bold. Maybe he's wrong. I don't know. It's. But it. He goes, he goes, mexicans have no idea that so many of them, according to this guy, so many of them are indigenous. But what they do is they think they're Spanish. Right? Because the Spains came over, they speak Spanish, Right. And so they believe they're Spanish, but the reality is they're mixed Spanish and indigenous. Right. And that heritage has been taken away from them as well. And I think kind of this guy's mission is to re educate a lot of Mexicans on their indigenous heritage and that pride they should feel in it. And I was like, oh, that's really. I never thought of that. Like, I just didn't even dawn on me. [00:23:42] Speaker A: Do you feel like your exhibits do a lot of that? Do you feel like, you know, like, when you, when you, when you make, you know, because you're in creative storytelling, and I've seen a number of things that you've created and made. Do you have, like, some sort of lineage? Some sort of things that, that ultimately I've seen pictures, and they're beautiful. I saw the Princess Diana exhibit that you, that you guys did. [00:24:01] Speaker B: Oh, thank you. Nothing indigenous about that. But that, that was, that was just like a random. [00:24:07] Speaker A: But it just shows you, you know, you're like, you're across the board, right. You appreciate everything that. [00:24:12] Speaker B: She's dope. She's dope. She. She was so interesting and I learned so much about her. And yeah, that one was dope because we. We launched that one in Santa Monica, then Chicago, Washington, we traveled it around. It was real Fun. And it was funny because I'd be on these shows, live shows, and, you know, I was. I was promoting it and stuff. And I remember what, because I was learning about Princess Diana, and then I had to do a bunch of homework. But it's funny. One of these shows I come on, the guy goes, she came from a. [00:24:42] Speaker A: Prominent family, so it's not like she was some school teacher either. Like, she came from. [00:24:45] Speaker B: No, no, that was a problem. Yeah, for sure. And she, they introduced me, the guys. Like, nobody knows more about Princess Diana than this guy coming up after the break. And I'm like, oh, God, don't quiz me, dude. Like, I did. Many people know way more than me. So I try to learn about what I'm working on. But, you know, some of the stuff I do and what's been really keeping me occupied these days is I do a lot of art, indigenous art, integrations into public spaces, into public buildings, buildings that are owned by the federal government. These are spaces that are frequented by indigenous and non indigenous people alike. And so, yeah, a educational component. Nick one, do me a favor. Want to pass me that art piece? And so, like, we do these. We do these, like, different types of works, collaborating with artists of many different backgrounds. And we always try to use them as an opportunity for education, storytelling within the art piece itself. I'll give you an example of one. So now this is like a small version. This is like a mockup of like a giant mirror. [00:25:48] Speaker A: Yeah. Perfect. Awesome. Wonderful. Yeah. [00:25:51] Speaker B: Oh, it's upside down. [00:25:52] Speaker A: Yeah, I see. It's beautiful. [00:25:54] Speaker B: Oh, wait, is it. Okay, the same thing both ways. So this gives you an example of like an art piece we did. And so what was cool about this art piece is like, get it very large and we add layers to it. So once that goes onto the wall, the next thing we did is we had collected leaves. It was during fall. And so we applied leaves to the wall next in an epoxy. We took this glitter, this like kind of glitter kind of paint, right. Application, and we applied it to the fish, right? Because this was like, those fish there, those are white fish, right? And it represents the fish in one of the lakes of the indigenous people that live near us. So we applied this glitter. So as the sun moves through the sky, it also glitters off of this mural. And so it's like multi layered pieces. But to answer your question, yes, there's always storytelling in it. [00:26:49] Speaker A: You know what else was really cool was, you know, just, I think one of the. The most creative things that I, I seen that you did was just your ability to weave back and forth between multiple different cultures and things like that, which I found very fascinating as well, too. So do you have other consultants from other different types of cultures? Because, you know, there's indigenous. That's. That's like Australia, you know, they have the aborigines down there, for example. [00:27:13] Speaker B: Absolutely. So, yeah, we. We have consultants in all. Like, again, it's. It's all about networking. It's all about meeting people, different groups. It's also my friend group, I think, because my mother was so interested in different cultures that she immediately, like, my mother just went to. To. Where the heck did my mother just go? Hey, hey, hey, Herschel. Where'd my mother just go? She just flew somewhere in. In. In Vietnam. Thank you. See, that's why I got my team here. They helped me out. They're younger. They're much younger than me. Yeah, they got better memory. They remember. Yeah, my mother just went to Vietnam because she made these young Vietnamese friends. They all call her Grandma. They brought her to Vietnam. My mother has always been that person that will connect with every type of culture, and that's what I was getting introduced to as a kid. And so I've carried that on in my life. And so I'm super fascinated. So you make these friends, and those are the people you talk to, and then you consult and you ask questions, and you learn. And you learn how to, like, tell these stories in a better way and to even work with them directly on telling the stories. Like, hey, you. I want you involved. I want you. If I'm working on this from this perspective, I want you involved in helping me to create this. So, yeah, that's. Yeah, that's. That's how we roll, Rashad. [00:28:30] Speaker A: You know, what's fun is, like, I think even, like, things that you people do that they do kind of, you know, whether it's a sport, whether it's entertainment, like. Like lacrosse, for example. Well, that was a Native American sport, right? [00:28:41] Speaker B: Like, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. [00:28:43] Speaker A: I mean, anybody. I'm throw up. Not. Not. Not dissing anybody. You can just tell. You can clearly, clearly just tell that obviously, the racket, the basket, you're like, wait a minute, that came from something else. Because clearly this wouldn't have been something that would have translated from overseas to be over here. And then you see the old images and pictures. So when people start going down the little Google, you know, wormhole and Google, you know, people can, you know, obviously, search results, you really have to find your history of yourself. But you'll see actual pictures of things that. Games and sports that were being played that are very prominent that were already being done by. By cultures such as yours. And you're like, wow, yeah, that's right. [00:29:19] Speaker B: That's right. And it was, it was, it was fun. It was play, but it was also training. It was a practice. Right. Hunting, very important. Right. Utilizing the land. You know, you. Using only as much as you need. Right. [00:29:33] Speaker A: And. [00:29:34] Speaker B: And giving back to it. And giving. Always giving back. Giving back as much as you're taking. A lot of indigenous cultures do have the. That the planet is a living thing. [00:29:44] Speaker A: Yes. [00:29:44] Speaker B: And that should be respected. And, you know, and I, I think some of those beliefs are starting to bleed into other cultures. I think the younger generation are starting to look and go, oh, maybe they were on to something. Maybe we went a little too far with this technology and industrialization and all of this stuff. [00:30:02] Speaker A: Like, well, the genie's out of the bottle on that. So I don't think, you know, I. [00:30:06] Speaker B: Don'T know, the genie could sometimes be put back in. That's a whole other conversation for another day. [00:30:11] Speaker A: But definitely. [00:30:12] Speaker B: Yeah. Yes. Yeah, there's. I mean, I hate to hurt your feelings, Rashad, but, you know, basketball was created by a Canadian, right? [00:30:19] Speaker A: Oh, Dr. James Naismith was not American. He just, he. He was born in Canada. Correct. He went to the States and then he made it in Kansas. Yes. Dr. James Naismith was 100 Canadian. I'm not a hater. The Hudson Bay company just closed, too. That, that was a. That was the oldest retailer in North America for people who don't know. Yeah. [00:30:43] Speaker B: Horrible history, though. Look up the history. [00:30:45] Speaker A: Horrible history. [00:30:46] Speaker B: Look up the history. It's almost like, kind of sad when something that's been around that long, like, goes out of business, but also kind of like, yeah, yeah, you could go. You served your purpose. [00:30:57] Speaker A: Well, I think one of the fascinating things, and you'll know where I'm. What I mean by this is a lot of things that are very, very prominent and mainstream have a very sordid history. Right? [00:31:10] Speaker B: So, like, products of their era, Right. [00:31:13] Speaker A: So Lloyds of London. So the first insurance policies, Their insurance policies were cargo. The cargo was slaves. So they. The underwriting of a lot of large of these finance. And I'm not here to, to make merits or, or, you know, people can make their own judgments on what I'm saying, but you just look it up for yourselves. A lot of these insurance and financial institutions, their cargo was people, and that's what they underwrote and their losses were the ones that died, you know. Yeah. In transit of taking care of these particular services that were being rendered. And that's just. [00:31:47] Speaker B: Can I. Can I hit you with another one? Yeah, because these are dark. Right. But, like. [00:31:51] Speaker A: Oh, for sure. [00:31:53] Speaker B: So you've heard the term redskins, right? [00:31:56] Speaker A: Right. [00:31:56] Speaker B: Do you know where the term originates from? [00:31:58] Speaker A: I think I do, but I know that you're probably going to be much better from it, so. [00:32:02] Speaker B: Okay. Okay. So back. Back in the day when they were trying to eradicate indigenous people, what they would do is they would just. Regular people, they would essentially say, go out, you know, cut the head off, bring it in. Just to prove. Right. Just to prove that you killed the person. Right. And the indigenous person. And they bring it in. They'd get their money. Right. And then it was piling up too much. There was too much heads piling up. They didn't know what to do with it. They're like, just bring in the hair. So they bring in the hair, but what they're finding is, like, they're cutting, like, their daughter's hair. They were growing out there, bringing it. And they're like, okay, what we want you to do is we want to bring the hair, but we want you to bring in one inch of red skin. Right. And so they started referring it as red skin. So here's your red skins. And so that's where that term apparently comes from. [00:32:51] Speaker A: I knew it was something to do with the scalp of. I. I did know that, but I didn't know to the extent of that. I mean, that's. That's. That's horrible. And that's tough to stomach. [00:32:58] Speaker B: It's dark. We went dark. Rashad. [00:33:00] Speaker A: Oh, my God. [00:33:00] Speaker B: How do we lighten this up, you know? [00:33:02] Speaker A: Yeah, well, you know it. But the thing is about it is, is I think that by using the medium, you know, I'm a documentary watcher. I'm a huge. One of the reasons you and I kicked it off so well right away and continue to is because we both come from that same space. You force yourself creatively through art and image and things like that. I don't have that skill set, but I do have, you know, a small set of skills to be able to do this on this show, to talk to people such as yourself. So in a way, I'm. That's my art version of art. Right. So what fascinates me is, is some of the things to. To your point that may entertain us, that may just seem like, you know, regular everyday occurrences. When you start when you go deep into that wormhole, you may hear things and see things that may make you feel uncomfortable. Comfortable. But that doesn't mean at the same time that, you know, I hate to say what happened, happened, but there's nothing we can do to undo certain things. But your medium has allowed things to be represented. [00:33:59] Speaker B: Yeah, I think it's, It's. Well, thanks for saying it that way. I think I'm. I'm involved with a few different mediums, right. Because, you know, I do the integrations, but, you know, I just finished a short documentary called Red Resilience. Now it hasn't been released yet. It's nowhere to be seen. I'm just basically teasing this thing. I'm still working on a couple of things when it comes to, like, there's always these weird, like, you know, dotting your eyes, crossing your T's. Sometimes, like. Yeah, there's some things there. And we've got. We got. The narrator on it actually is a very famous indigenous actor named Adam Beach. [00:34:40] Speaker A: He was in Wind Talkers, right? [00:34:42] Speaker B: Oh, God, yeah. Nick Cage. Yeah, that was a dope one. [00:34:45] Speaker A: Really, really good actor. [00:34:46] Speaker B: Actor, really good actor. [00:34:48] Speaker A: RIP too. [00:34:49] Speaker B: Yep. Oh, yeah, that was, that was. That was really heartbreaking. And so we got him to narrate it and it's, It's. It's a. It's a short one. I'm excited for that. When I get to share that, I'll probably end up sharing it through our website, Sky Story. I'll release it there. So I do also the documentary. I'm also an executive producer on a film that came out a few years ago called Bisbing. It's on a former middleweight champion IMDb. [00:35:14] Speaker A: Profile as well, too, about Michael Bisbing. [00:35:16] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, so I did. I dipped my toe in there to a certain degree. And. And as the career develops, I'll probably do a little bit more of that. But again, you know, it's this. This idea of, I know, as cheesy the term storyteller has become, but I genuinely believe I am, you know, that that's. I, you know, that's what I do. And I just try to find different formats to just learn and then share what I'm learning with other people. [00:35:43] Speaker A: Right. And I think that there's beauty in. In that. Right. And that is the reason why I did this show. It wasn't because I was an expert in one particular field. It was because to manifest curiosity, to be everlasting, curious. I don't care who you are, you owe it to yourself. And, you know, I'm not, you know, and the beauty about being able to read history is if you open, if you, if you view it with an open mind, if you view it with just like, okay, I'm going to take this at the value of what it was and more importantly, I'm going to listen to the cultures and the people who know exactly what took place. Right. And it's very. And it, the depiction of it. You're walking past history from every building you walk past, from every, you know, sidewalk that you go through. You know, there are pieces of history, irrespective of our. Both countries that are very, very similar. Right. You know, and I think there's beauty in being able to portray that on a day by day basis. [00:36:39] Speaker B: I don't. Well said. And I want to say something else too, because history is all around us. I don't know how people aren't more curious about it. But I do say this, I think this is very important. Different people from lots of different cultures have had horrific histories and their people have treated in insidious, awful, awful things. Right. I really do believe that to just not let your history define you, but let it guide you. And those are two different things. I think if people could, on both sides of this, the conversation of like all these people are just whining and crying and other people that are like, well, this bad thing happened to me and you know, I'm having a hard time moving forward. Which again is, is all right. I think if we can adopt though the mindset that your history, even your personal history just don't. Those are events that happened. They did and they did affect you to whatever degree. It's different for everybody. It's not your identity. You make your identity. These things could guide you, they could help you to a certain degree, but they could also hinder you. So it's like find, find how you walk that razor's edge. [00:37:58] Speaker A: Well, there are countries, you know, and again, you know, this is the judgment free zone. So I'll say this very PG when it comes to. There are countries that are still in certain conditions because of what took place for hundreds of years ago. And I know it sounds like a cliche and I know sometimes people can say, why can't this particular location get their act together? But there are countries and locations that literally had to do certain things from their former, you know, colonizer or their former, you know, they had to use their currency, they had to pay back certain amounts of money from those respective countries or that the terms of their goods that come out of their Respective countries were very lopsided to the, to the parent country of the. Of the respective location. Right. So there are things that, you know, whether there's banks that are still set up that favor certain places, whether there's monetary systems, whether there are just, you know, institutions that are placed that still are putting certain places behind the eight ball, so to speak, and people can research the ones that I'm talking about. [00:38:57] Speaker B: It's pretty, it's pretty simple to find and it's as simple as thinking of. Most of us agree. No, most of us could agree that there are predatory practices with banks and with lending institutions, with individuals. I don't think most people realize that there's predatory lending practices with other countries by certain countries. I don't think they realize that. [00:39:22] Speaker A: No, it is, it's a fact. And you know, like I said, I'm, you know, this is the show that doesn't want to make anybody upset because I like to, you know, keep it neutral. But, you know, we can start. I would love to, me personally, you know, to do like a special with you on something respective with your culture because I really, I really want to actually do like a, a randomness of nothing special with, you know, your group and team to dive into something in your heritage, if I'm fortunate enough. Not you particularly, but that segment, because that's where I want to take the show. [00:39:54] Speaker B: Yeah, I think people bent. I mean, maybe I'm biased, right. But I do think people, especially people of like North America, even though indigenous people are everywhere. Keep this in mind. Indigenous people are ever. It's not just on Turtle Island. Right. Is what we call North America. Right. It's, it's. But I think that it's what. It's so fun to learn. It's interest. It's. It genuinely is interesting. We don't have to pretend any group is better than any group or any group invented this, that or the other thing. We don't have to get into that type stuff. It could just be like, why can't we just celebrate this really neat stuff? Or celebrate. We don't have to call it that because that frustrates people. It's like, oh, there's a parade for this group. There's a month for this group. There's other. Okay, forget it then. Okay, let's just leave that. Why don't we just learn about it? Just learn about a thing. Don't attach any politics to it. Don't attach any. Nothing to it. Just. It's something you want to learn about and it's you could take it or leave it. [00:40:51] Speaker A: Yeah, that's the. That's the beauty of it, right? You make it like the grocery store. There's a section for everybody, so to speak. Right. [00:40:57] Speaker B: I love that. That's good. That's good. [00:40:59] Speaker A: It's the grocery store, man. Like, listen, man, you know, your health foods are over here, your junk food's over here, your salties, your sweets. Hey, man, we're here to sell food to the general public, you know, and we've kind of figured out what everybody kind of likes to eat around here, so we're just gonna let everybody kind of make up their mind of what they want to eat. [00:41:15] Speaker B: That's right. I love that. That's dope, bro. [00:41:17] Speaker A: That's the way that's the way I look at it. So, you know, it's. I feel like I could do this for quite some time with you. You know, it's. I really do, man, because, you know, you. You know, this is. This is why I created the show, because I think that there's so much to learn out there with an open mind. And it. You owe it to yourself, because when your mind starts spinning, you know, it sure beats driving past the same grocery store, the same, you know, you know exactly what light turns, what time, and you get a routine. And when your routine hits you, the belly gets bigger and the hair gets thinner. So it's very important. That's. [00:41:52] Speaker B: That's just facts. Yeah. Rashad, this is dope. This is awesome. Keep doing this. I know you've done a lot of episodes. I asked. It was like, what, 227 or something like this? That's incredible. That's a feat. That is a feat. Most people in this world aren't consistent with things like, they get to about a dozen of a thing, and they give up. And you're still going, bro. You're still going. [00:42:14] Speaker A: I have a hard time saying no to people. People, right? That's like. That's my thing. And, you know, and I don't mean that in a bad way, but it's like, man, like, when you have somebody like yourself reach out, or you have, you know, a member of the military reach out, or you have a, you know, custom bake maker, or you have an IT solution specialist, or you have, like, a tax finance guy, like, and you have, like, an author, and you're just like, dude, you mean to tell me instead of sitting in front of my TV and. And waiting, trying to click on, you know, the History Channel or Discovery Channel, I can just talk to somebody who's living it. [00:42:48] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:42:48] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:42:48] Speaker B: Well, good for you, man, because this is awesome. I'm having a great time. I hope your audience does as well. You're. You're a special guy. I hope you stay in touch, man. This is really fun. [00:42:59] Speaker A: Well, you know, like I said, you know, it's when you're five, eight, and then your basketball career ended ingloriously at 16, you better find something, you know what I'm saying? Because, I mean, Everybody else turned 6, 4, and I peaked at 5, 8. So, you know, Damn. [00:43:13] Speaker B: Yeah, it is what it is. Still handsome. Got that badass fade. Still got a full head of hair. Looking good. [00:43:22] Speaker A: Hey, man, listen, man. Every single day I look in the mirror, I'm like, you know, I'm like, thank. I said I got one little thin spot right here, but everything else is smooth. And I'm like, thank you. The tiger. [00:43:32] Speaker B: Another one for the good guys. [00:43:33] Speaker A: You. You're. I appreciate you, man. [00:43:35] Speaker B: Hey, also, if you guys watch and follow me on Instagram, that's where I do most of my stuff. I know. Maybe you're like, oh, Boomer, we're on tick. I'm on Tick Tock with my dog. I mean, you can, if you want to watch me and my dog do stuff. That's Cliff and Bean. Okay? That's simple. That's Tick Tock. But if you want to follow some of my stuff on Instagram, I'm Cliff Notes. I got Cliff Notes. I don't know how. I don't know. No underscores, no dots, no nothing. Just straight up Cliff Notes. So that's where you can find me. There. Just being silly. Posting a lot of stories before we leave. [00:44:05] Speaker A: Where can everybody find you? In addition to Instagram, but your companies as well. [00:44:08] Speaker B: Yeah, Sky Story, creative.com. go on there. You could check us out. That's okay. That. That's really it. Or find me on Instagram or, I don't know, just wander the streets, you know, put up some smoke signals, see, if I show up, I'm not gonna say that I ain't gonna even show up. You're gonna end up burning your. Your yard down, man. Yeah. [00:44:30] Speaker A: Yeah, man. Like, you know, I gotta live and I need to make sure that at this place. [00:44:32] Speaker B: Yeah, don't do that. That's silly. [00:44:34] Speaker A: You know. Hey, man. Hey. I would want to wish you a very special holiday season with you and your family and, you know, and you and your team are wonderful people, and it has been an absolute honor and a privilege. I'm truly humbled that you guys found me and wanted to talk. [00:44:47] Speaker B: Yeah, I loved it. Let's do it again. All right. [00:44:50] Speaker A: Keep it real. [00:44:51] Speaker B: Okay. [00:44:52] Speaker A: Peace. [00:44:52] Speaker B: Bye.