Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: Hello, listeners of the Tron podcast. This is your host, Rashad Woods. And today I have a very special guest that has willing to tell her story and share, you know, her souls with the world to have an opportunity to spare people what she went through.
I really, really took a lot of time to really research this topic because it's very important for people on relationships. Jodi Pavlock, thank you very much.
[00:00:22] Speaker B: Yes, thank you for having me.
[00:00:24] Speaker A: This was. This was deep when I started reading about what you went through and, you know, watching some of your other podcasts and videos and obviously, you know, it's about people who are narcissists and in relationships with people who are narcissistic. And it's actually.
It's actually a term medically that, that people have. And so can you please just go into this, please?
[00:00:41] Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, when this all happened to me, you know, in the beginning, I didn't really understand, you know, what was going on. But then I heard the term narcissist and I started divulging into the world of it and researching and I'm like, oh, my gosh. You know, the person I was with at the time is definitely a full blown narcissist. And there's all different forms. There's covert, there's overt malignant. You know, I call my ex Frank, a covert narcissist, but he definitely has a touch of malignant in him too, because very vindictive, cold, nasty. You know, with everything I've been through, unfortunately, it's kind of like an epidemic now. When the book came out, when I wrote it and released it, a lot more people are recognizing it now and talking about it, which is good, because I really feel it's a subject that a lot of people don't understand if they haven't been through it or if they even have a friend that's been through it, it's hard for them to kind of wrap their head around because a lot of people tend to judge and like, well, why didn't you leave them sooner? And, you know, why don't you talk back to them? It's very different when you're in an abusive relationship. There's a whole different mindset. Yeah, they kind of have you brainwashed in a sense, so you really have to just divulge into it and take it as a whole and dissect it and then kind of understand what you're going through. And then you can like, bit by bit, piece by piece, hopefully get yourself out of the situation.
[00:01:59] Speaker A: Like I did well, you know, before we obviously dive into the book and your experience, I thought when you said that people see it's a lot more common. Have you seen that social media has really like turned that on its head, where either a people two. It's kind of a two stool question, so to speak. Number one is because people can be more vain on social media. Look at me, you know, et cetera, et cetera. And then, number two, people reach out to people that they typically couldn't have before.
[00:02:23] Speaker B: Yes, absolutely. Actually, where I really started fighting first finding out about narcissist was on TikTok. If you put in narc talk N A R C. Yes. I mean, there's like literally hundreds of thousands of videos. And then I would join all these pages. And it mostly happens to women. 70% narcissists are male. The other 30% are women. So it definitely can happen on either sex side, but it's more predominantly in males that are narcissists. Once I learned all this, I would talk to people and then in a way, when I would hear their other stories, you know, it make me sad, but then it would validate what I was going through, you know, because narcissists tend to make you feel like you disassociate from yourself and like, wait, am I going crazy? Did they really say that? Did he really mean it that way? They really have this way of manipulating, manipulating your mind. And when you watch other stories and what other people are going through, it just again, gives you that concrete validation, like, wow, I'm not the only person going through this. There are I, unfortunately, other people that are going through the same thing. So it's a good community.
[00:03:30] Speaker A: Yeah. And so, you know, I know when I was listening to one of your previous podcasts, it was like, sometimes it doesn't reveal it right away, you know, you know, there could be just the overly lovely person that could just say, hey, I text too much, just because I'm a texting kind of guy. So we're talking from a male perspective on this situation that you dealt with versus the other side to it, where they need validation from your response. And that's their way of feeling important. Because I saw when you said that people feel like one of the reasons they get like that, because they had abandonment at some point in life or felt abandoned, and this is their way of making sure they're not. And that's how they goes from, you know, the clingy cute guy who's kind of annoying, but he's innocent, versus, yo, this dude Is full blown, over the edge, you know? You know?
[00:04:10] Speaker B: Yes.
It's kind of hard to detect because most narcissists, they do have that love bombing the right away, I love you. And like, the crazy texting and phone calls, see, with my ex, Frank, and, you know, like I was saying, he's a covert narcissist. What they do, all narcissists, is they mirror you. So they kind of see who you are as a person and they mirror that reflection and like, oh, okay, like, now I'm going to kind of go at her speed. So he was very calculated, which is the best word to say it, because he knew my reputation around town. Oh, she's just the local school bus driver. She's a good woman. You know, she doesn't sleep around. You know, she was going through a divorce. He knew that about me because I knew of him from years ago. So when we first started initiating talking and everything, it was very slow. It wasn't like a typical narcissist going crazy with the text messages and that. He went at my speed because he knew I was getting divorced. I wasn't looking for anything. But he knew I was drawn to him, and I knew he was drawn to me like a moth to a flame, an empath to a narcissist. So I didn't realize it then, but I was just getting to know him. But he was making me comfortable, which is something I struggle with, especially two narcissistic relationships under my belt. But he knew that, so he took my vulnerability and he slowly mirrored me to get me to a comfortable space. And then after that, then we amped it up to the texting every day. Then we amped it up to the phone calls, then the control.
And then, you know, his mask did not slip until about, I'd say, about two and a half years later, which is not the usual. Usually it only takes them six months, but it happened about six months after I moved in with him. So they all. Unfortunately, they all follow the same path, but they do it to their own beat. So, you know, you kind of got to be aware of those situations.
[00:06:02] Speaker A: Well, I thought that what was interesting to me was that, you know, you go through these phases of kind of discovery, so to speak, and it's almost like. And I say this because I talked to a former Secret Service agent on one of my previous podcasts, and the. The. The mirroring of, you know, I had a very good dialogue. When you see the episode, I don't want to reveal too much, but the tactics that are used you know, of listening and then absorbing and then saying something back. Like, you know, you don't say, do you? You say, would you? How. So that way the sentence keeps going and they're taking information in from you, right? And then it becomes, okay, then they can finish your sentence and then they get you to open up and then they can find angles and they can pivot. You know, it's a practice and skill that. I hate to say that it's, it's. I hate to call it skill. Right. But it's something that, you know, I don't admire it, but it's like, well, damn, that's, you know, that's, that takes some, some work to really, like be able to do that.
[00:06:56] Speaker B: Yes, absolutely it does. And when you, you learn of it at that level, it's like as unintelligent as they are with like the cheating and manipulation. They have like a PhD in deception manipulation, you know, just tricking people. And it's kind of sc.
And like you were saying before, they actually have a diagnostic code for, in the medical field for narcissistic personality disorder. And, you know, it kind of goes hand in hand sometimes a little bit with bipolar and schizophrenia and ADHD and all that. But what I always stress to everybody, and it's not a put down this, I'm, I'm all about facts. Whereas there are other mental disorders that truly can't be helped. They're genetic or they just happened, or they can take medication, predisposition and stuff like that.
Yes. See, narcissists, it's not like, oh, I have a disability, I don't realize what I'm doing. No, they know exactly what they're doing and they enjoy inflicting pain on you. See, that's the big difference between a different mental disorder and what they have, because they absolutely know they are hurting you and killing your soul slowly as they're decepting you. And that's what I try to explain to like all the readers and listeners.
Like I was saying before, I'm all about the truth and transparency and I try to say it in the nicest way possible, but sometimes you kind of got to be hit with the facts and be like, you have to.
[00:08:22] Speaker A: I thought you were gonna say hit something else. But I was like, well, you know.
[00:08:25] Speaker B: Well, I'm from Jersey, you know. You know, that's how it's all about. But, you know, but I mean, that's how I had to be. Like when I left my ex, I had to be shook to the core with the facts. Of what was going on, because you don't want to believe when you're with somebody for almost nine years, as I was with my ex, that they could even be like, think of doing these things to you that they would even fathom, like, oh, you know, let me see if I could try to get away with this. No, this is pure manipulation on every level. It's sadistic in a way. So this is what I tried to. I try to tell people because I get a lot of DMs and stuff, and I'd say since the book came out, and like I said, right now it's self published, so I'm pushing it out myself, but I'm, you know, I'm trying to get a literary agent and a bigger publishing company to push it out. But I'd say about eight women so far read my book and they got the strength to leave. So, I mean, I am extremely happy with that. You know, some. Some were different situations. It's like the beginning of relationship. Somebody was in a narcissistic marriage for 30 years. Somebody couldn't get away because of money and children. And I just tried to guide them along the way how to get out. And, you know, I just don't want people to feel if they're in these situations, that there is no light at the end of the tunnel. There is, but you got to just light the candle and go yourself.
[00:09:44] Speaker A: Well, I think the difficult part is everybody's situation is different. Right. Somebody, you know. Yes, I. You know, if all of us have watched, like, you know, the true crime shows, and I'm not, I am in no way, I'm trying to say I find joy in people getting, like, abused or having bad situations. But you'll have. You'll suddenly have a situation where you're watching it, and then a woman will be like, I didn't even know that I was 800 miles away from my house, in this hotel, no family near. Like, they. It just sort of cycled, like, where it. It just.
[00:10:12] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:10:13] Speaker A: You know, it happened one stage after another after another. And then they're like, well, dang, man. You know, luckily these women were alive to talk about this, but they're like, yes. At any given Sunday, you know, nobody would have. I wouldn't have been able to reach out to anybody nearby, you know, if it escalated to a certain point.
[00:10:27] Speaker B: Absolutely, absolutely. And that. And that's why I made a group called Jody's Triumph on.
And it's for anybody who just wants to be schooled on narcissism. Somebody who's going through it. And I always tell them, if you don't feel comfortable writing stuff on the group page, you can DM me. And, you know, I'm here. And I also got my certification as a narcissistic abuse recovery coach. So, you know, I know the psychology behind it, too, also with living with it. Yes. So, you know, I'm really. Like I said, the whole premise of the book is just to tell my story, to say that it can happen to anyone, unfortunately, look out for the signs. Take my gullibility and what I went through and how much I put up with that I shouldn't have, and I got the strength to leave, and hopefully that can give the strength to somebody else to get out of those situations. No matter, you know, what. What is lying ahead for them?
[00:11:15] Speaker A: Do you find. And that's wonderful work too, by the way. Do you find that it's a certain income, demographics, location that are more likely to have a situation happen? And that's not. I mean, because I've seen shows where, you know, they're like, I. I live in the, in the, in the suburban community, and you would never know what I'm going through. Right. So, yes, you know, I don't want to. Certainly don't want to pigeonhole that it's a certain group of people. But have you had it where you can, from your studies and research and work, you're like, this is a likely group of people that could this end up happening to?
[00:11:48] Speaker B: Yeah. I mean, the only thing that I've seen that every person that I've talked to that, you know, has been in a narcissistic relationship, I was trying to get out. I can tell right away by the way they talk and even messaging me. They're an empath like me. So you absolutely draw a narcissist in because their darkness is drawn to your light and they want it. And I tried to explain to all these women what they actually initially do is they're enamored with you and they put you on a pedestal that you're like, oh, you're everything that I was looking for. And then somewhere down the line in the relationship, so something stupid happens, like, oh, you know, you overcooked my mashed potatoes. I mean, something absolutely ludicrous. And then they start looking at you and like, oh, you're not perfect. Well, nobody is. And certainly a narcissist isn't. And then they start the devaluing. Very little criticism here and there. And then it goes full blown. And then it's this Full cycle. And now, as you know, time has gone on. After the book came out, I said in a couple of the podcasts, a lot of choice women reached out to me that were involved with my ex while I was with him, right after I left him. I had absolutely no idea. And they were just so apologetic. They're like, I had no idea. And I said, I didn't either. But you know what? I appreciate when there's mature women that can come together and say, I didn't know he was doing this to you. I didn't know you two were working it out. And then he was seeing me, whatever. I appreciate full transparency, you know, I.
Yeah, part of the book.
Yeah, it's, it's just, it's more about. See, I can't stand when there's immature women like my ex, his ex before, you know, she was very immature with the situation.
That's explained in another podcast. But it's like, you know, if you know something and I don't know something and then you're blaming me if I'm completely blind to the situation, be mature, Say, hey, let's go have coffee together. I show you the facts, you show me the facts, then we could put two and two together. But when you have some women, unfortunately, that are like at a 10 year old mentality and it's all like, no, no, no, he's mine, mine, mine, that's not going to get you anywhere, you know, and then you hate the other woman for not knowing something unbeknownst to her for years. So I appreciate the women out there that truly take the full transparency. They talk like human beings. I mean, I even had somebody a couple of weeks ago notice me at a doctor's office and said, somebody in their family dated my ex instantly, right after I broke up with him. And she left him right away because she said, I don't even know Jody. I read the book and I completely resonate with everything she went through, you know, and, you know, kudos to her. I don't know her personally, but thank God she got out because this is what they do. It's just a game to them. They love inflicting pain, pain and harm onto the person they're with. Eventually, sometimes it takes many years, like me, sometimes it only takes two months, like this girl. So you never know.
[00:14:54] Speaker A: So let me ask this question. I don't know if you've ever been asked this. Has there ever been somebody who's actually been acknowledged or you've seen that was diagnosed as, that finally got the help they needed to and then actually changed like as a person when they realized the damage that they were inflicting. Has it, you know, I mean we obviously your situation. I don't, I can. I've just heard snippets of it and I'm very sorry.
But have you ever heard examples where like, you know, this book came out. I identified this in my partner husband and then finally it kind of got a self acknowledgment and he met his bro Damascus moment, so to speak.
[00:15:29] Speaker B: Yes. I don't know anybody personally, but I actually do follow, I think two guys on TikTok that they are self aware narcissists. And I always make this point. Most narcissists, like 99% of them will never admit they're a narcissist or go to therapy or that there's something wrong and actually work on themselves. But these two men actually make a point to say they first start their video. I'm a self aware narcissist and I want you to know what goes through my mind. And the things that they post are mind blowing because it's exactly what I went through. The things that are going through their mind, how they're devaluing you. But then they go to therapy and these two men have wives and children, but they go to therapy together and they always say at the end of their videos, I know I'm a narcissist, I know I have a disorder, but I'm trying to work on it and I want my wife to have the best husband possible. So there is a very small percentage that they will be self aware. Yeah, they click. But it's very far and few that that does happen.
[00:16:30] Speaker A: If you know, there's one movie in particular when I was thinking the entire time of your story, I don't know if you ever seen American Psycho, right?
[00:16:36] Speaker B: I saw parts of it. Yes, yes.
[00:16:39] Speaker A: You know, Christian Bale, you know, it was a heck of a movie, right. It's based on a book and for people who haven't seen it, he's a Wall street, you know, 80s guy, you know, pseudo, the psycho version of Gordon Gekko, so to speak. But everything was about him. And you see and I think of that book, you know, don't touch the watch. He's, you know, his vain, his face is vaselined. He had to be the six pack. And you know, do you find that it's a certain profession of men that are like that or does it even. Does it matter? Right.
[00:17:09] Speaker B: Like, you know, some they have that ego and stuff but My ex, Frank, was just a blue collar worker. You know, he was a hard worker. But I'll make the point. He wasn't a hard worker, say, for the family. Now, see, we never had children. We were just engaged. We didn't get down the aisle. But he only worked for himself. It wasn't for us. You know, so there's. There's a difference, but it really can be anybody. And that's the scary part. And there's all levels of narcissist, and a lot of people have narcissistic traits. I mean, we could all say there's a part of us that sometimes if somebody brings it out of us, we can be, you know, ego driven and stuff. But there's a difference when, you know, you get revved up because somebody says something mean or nasty to you, and then you're calculating to have an affair and destroy somebody's home, you know, so there. There's a big difference, obviously, in that. But I always reference that other movie from.
I think it was 93 with Julia Roberts. Sleeping with the Enemy. That's another one.
[00:18:07] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. I mean, I saw that movie when I was like 15 or something like that. I was like, yes.
[00:18:12] Speaker B: I was like, wow. And that's what I always say. I said I was sleeping with the enemy because they live a double life. And then until I found out, I mean, I thought he was just being mean and nasty to me. And then I thought for a while, maybe he's jealous of me, which is a big thing. They are jealous of you, but which is so stupid because it's like, dude, I can't help who I am as a person. Just be appreciative. I'm in your life and I do absolutely everything for you. But it's actually towards the end when they start resenting you, the more you love them and the more you do for them, the more they hate and resent you. It's like the opposite.
[00:18:45] Speaker A: Yeah. Right. So it's like, yeah, the more I'm actually, like, giving of myself, the more that I'm trying to process that sentence just because it doesn't make much sense to me. Right.
[00:18:53] Speaker B: Yes.
And I know from other people, you know, from like, his past and other women, the women that did him dirty, he'll stay in touch with and be like, oh, yeah, they're such a great person. But then the. The one who actually loved them through and through and was there for them the hardest times. Oh, I hate Jody. She's the biggest bitch ever.
[00:19:12] Speaker A: Okay, good, good. Whatever. Can't Accept affection, so to speak, you know.
[00:19:16] Speaker B: Oh, yes, exactly.
[00:19:17] Speaker A: They're very bad that, you know, I would, I guess because I don't live in that space, it's kind of hard for me to try to, you know. I mean, we listen to full disclosure. If you ever worked out at the gym, everybody's took. I don't care who has, I don't care whoever has worked out. You get done. You take a pick. Because you're like, I'm feeling myself a little bit. You know, I mean, I'm feeling myself, you know, I feel like I'm feeling good. The shirts, you know, feeling kind of good. And that's healthy. Right. Sometimes you just need that little confidence booster, you know what I mean? I think that's fun. And I do it, you know, people should do it out of fun, you know, and, and, but people can be mean and nasty. Even if you aren't at, you know, you don't look like Victoria's Secret model or, you know, you don't look like this particular, you know, you know, I, Brad Pitt's abs from Fight Club. Yeah. Accomplishments. You should feel, you know, like people need to be, you know, But I, I, I struggle with the fact that I think that people like that eventually can turn violent too, because then it becomes. Because they're never satisfied with the person. Typically, the, the victim is a woman. I mean. Yeah. You know, I can only imagine how many people, unfortunately, that this, I mean, we've seen shows and things like that in documentaries and news broadcasts. This is a very serious thing.
[00:20:23] Speaker B: No, it really, it really is. And like, there's, there's bits and pieces, I tell my book, but my, My ex, Frank, had quite the temper, especially when he was under the influence, let's just say. And even when he wasn't, which was even scarier. So, you know, they really put that facade up for a very long time. And then once that mask starts to drop, sometimes it comes crashing down, sometimes it's little by little, and then you're like, wow, this, this is not normal. This is just crazy.
So, you know, you just, you just gotta be careful. And I always tell people, go with your intuition. If something seems off, you know, just go with it. Don't, you know, don't stay for years and years and years and then be sorry in the long run.
[00:21:02] Speaker A: Right. And so if you're, what are the telltale signs that are early on that somebody can kind of tell this is not the person that I knew? Like, what is, does it come in small doses? Is it, it's outside of text messages. Sometimes I'm just curious, like, what can, what can somebody start saying where this is going to go south or this person is not who I thought they were.
[00:21:23] Speaker B: Absolutely. I mean, like some things that I overlooked because I just thought he liked attention, my ex, which he did. But that's a narcissistic quality when they need to like, shout from the rooftops, look at me, look at me. A lot of the social media posting saying, oh, I just worked 100 hours overtime, you losers have to go home to your fat wives that you can't stand and I'm going to Aruba. Like those kinds of things, like real digs, you know, that's not nice.
[00:21:51] Speaker A: You know, the Internet unfortunately has allowed that. You know, like if you ever, like if you had an empty room and you were saying that before, now you got, oh yeah, it's a different ball game now with the Internet.
[00:22:00] Speaker B: Yeah, you can't be going around saying those things. I mean, that's definitely first one.
Then if it's. They're always centered on themselves, always talking about them.
My ex had this big thing about money, saying that he was a millionaire. No, he wasn't. He's not anything close to it. Again, I stick to facts. He made decent money. We live in Bergen county, we're in the third richest county of all United States. But he certainly is not anything close to it. And he would go around screaming from the rooftops, I'm a millionaire. You know, again, I would just roll my eyes and like, yeah, it's just stupidity. It was just all for attention.
And then, you know, on top of it, when. Not that they're making fake promises, but it's like, oh, I'm going to take you to the best place. And then, oh, I got a place in Aruba. I'm going to take you and show you off. Everything has to be like, you're a shiny new object of prize. And especially in the beginning. That's what they do. They look at you like a shiny new toy and they got to show you off to all their friends. Or in his instance, it would be acquaintances because narcissists really don't have friends. That's another big thing. They find out real quick you do. And the biggest thing I tell everybody narcissists are their own worst enemy. They are self destructive. Because I always tell people narcissism is rooted with something in childhood and their biggest fear is abandonment. But yet they do everything in their power for the person that they're with that they truly know that has only good intentions and loves them for them, they will do everything in their power to destroy the relationship, force that person to leave and then be yet abandoned. So it's just mind blowing. And as I went down the timeline, I found out through how many relationships my ex had, whether it was hookers, one night stands, girlfriends and ex wife, whatever, every single woman has left him. He has never left anybody. Geez, what's the common denominator here?
[00:23:56] Speaker A: You.
[00:23:57] Speaker B: Exactly.
So, you know, it's deep, you know.
[00:24:02] Speaker A: And, and the thing is about it too is, you know, I'm sure, you know, on various other podcasts and you know, other avenues that you've listened, do you do public speaking? Do you go on a tour or anything? Or have you started talking to groups?
[00:24:12] Speaker B: Right, you know, yes, I'm gonna start doing that. I did a speaking engagement down in South Jersey in February. That was a great experience. Obviously, you know, I love to talk.
[00:24:21] Speaker A: I love the way you said Jersey too, right? Like it's just like, yeah, yeah, if.
[00:24:24] Speaker B: You didn't get Jersey, just say, hey, have a cup of coffee, gobaghoul. You know that, that's all you gotta say. But listen, I may not be Italian, but I cook like one. And I love the Sopranos, you know.
[00:24:36] Speaker A: I didn't want to say the Sopranos thing because like, you know, that's too obvious, right? Like, it's too obvious, right?
[00:24:41] Speaker B: Like, okay, I'm gonna do that DNA, 1, 2, 3 and me. And just, just pray to God that I have just 1%, a little Sicilian or something to me and I could just shout from the rooftops, you know.
[00:24:51] Speaker A: Oh my goodness, that's the true romance scene going on now, right, right there, absolutely.
[00:24:57] Speaker B: But it is true. Like you have to just look out for these signs and like I said, your intuition will feel something. And see, with me, it's very different. My whole life, whoever I dated, I didn't have like many long term relationships. I had my ex husband, then an ex fiance before that when I was really young, and then one other boyfriend. But you know, I was with Frank for almost nine years and we were engaged. See, with him, he was the only man that I ever felt sparks for. And I was like, oh, this is how it's really supposed to be. But those sparks were really me igniting again. An empath being drawn to a narcissist. I always say we were two pieces of puzzle that weren't supposed to fit together, but they just did. Because when we worked, we worked. It obviously wasn't all bad because Then I wouldn't have stayed for that long. But the highs and the lows. Then that trauma bond, which is a big word a lot of people don't understand. You actually, your body gets chemically addicted to them. You could be in love with them.
Yeah. You were actually addicted to them. Like. Like a drug. And I don't drink and I don't do drugs, so, like, I wouldn't know. So my narcissistic abuse therapist had to explain it to me. You actually, when you leave them, you go through withdrawals. And let me tell you, I did. It's not easy, but you have to retrain your brain because it's. The person who causes you harm is also the person who soothes you.
[00:26:22] Speaker A: You.
[00:26:23] Speaker B: So when you're. You're having those arguments, you're like, no, please, please, just. Just stop being mad with me. Or if you're yelling and screaming at them, you're waiting for them to calm down and stop throwing shit at the wall and be like, okay, Jody, like, I'm not mad anymore. I'm done. And then you're like. And you're getting that dopamine hit. Then you could breathe, but then you're walking on eggshells again. It's the most complex thing to explain, but I'm trying to get better at it because it's hard, but it's.
[00:26:48] Speaker A: You know, it's in. Obviously, this is much different, but it's like the equivalent of, like, food. Right? Like, it's hard to, you know, if you're eating or if you have. You know, if you have indulge in certain foods and, you know, you shouldn't eat certain foods, but you keep eating certain foods because, yes, the taste of it is. Is still addictive. So I can understand kind of the correlation of that, you know.
[00:27:08] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:27:09] Speaker A: Because, you know, it's. At the end of the day, sometimes the things that are the most harmful to us are the most attractive.
[00:27:14] Speaker B: Right, Exactly. And that's. That's a good point because I. I always made a point to tell everybody I technically left my ex twice. And I'm always, like. I always was a big believer of, like, not going back. You know, you can't work things out the first time, it's not going to work the 2nd, 3rd, 5th, 10th, whatever. But I did go back because so much I loved him and trauma bonded and, you know, when I left him and I found out about the affair yet again, I didn't want to leave him. I had to leave him. I had to force myself to put myself first to love myself enough. Because when you give somebody a second chance and then they're blatantly spitting in your face saying, I can live a double life, screw you. You're not good enough. You gotta just. You got to cut it out. You know, you got to be like the mob. Boom, you're done. And that's it.
And that's. That's how I was, you know, that's the Gemini in me, you know? You know, one minute I could cry. One minute I could be like, I don't know who you are, but you have to get that strength from within. And everybody's different. Some people can just do it instantly. I thank God, have a tribe of great friends that supported me through this. And again, I have two therapists. You know, I have my regular one I've had for years, and I have a narcissistic specialist therapist because it is a specialized kind of trauma you go through.
[00:28:29] Speaker A: I saw that that actually exists because, you know, because, like, the average person, if they do, you know, because when we think of therapists, we think of, you know, you know, divorce relations, standard relationship issues where people just, quote, unquote, grow apart or somebody's going through grievance counseling, you know, you don't really go down that little wormhole to try to deal with that. Like, that's not the one that's. On the first four or five sessions, so to speak. Like, hey, you know, the death of a parent, that's, you know, God forbid, a kid, you know, or. Or, you know, a taxing divorce that just emotionally drain you. That's not the one that you're looking for. If, you know, that's. That's a different type of situation. So.
[00:29:01] Speaker B: Absolutely.
[00:29:02] Speaker A: That's. That's some deep stuff, man. You know, really is. And I'd use another word, but, you know, this.
It's. It's tough to. It's tough to kind of put myself.
[00:29:10] Speaker B: It's. Yeah, it's sleeping with the enemy part, too.
[00:29:12] Speaker A: So, I mean, dang, man. You know what I mean? So, like, I'm glad you're here to talk about it, you know, and you're getting the help that you need, and you're helping other women, you know, to get through a very trying time. And, you know, my definite heart goes out to people who are dealing with that on a day by day basis.
I always ask my guests this, and I say this not because of me, but for the purpose of the show. Where can people find Jody Pavlock? How is your story getting out? And what's Next of your stage in life.
[00:29:38] Speaker B: Yes, absolutely. Anybody can find me on www.jodielandpavlock.com. i'm also on Facebook Medicertified Jody Lynn Pavlok, Instagram Jodi Pavlok and TikTok Jodyp1984 on Facebook. I've run the Jody's Triumph group.
My book is available on Amazon, it's on Barnes and Nobles online and there's a couple other platforms and we're working on getting it in the stores. And I'm working on a couple of things right now up my sleeve. So I'm doing big things.
And also you could check on my website because I do modeling and acting on the side as well. I actually made it to. Yeah, thank you. I made a two minute book trailer like, like a little Lifetime movie to the book. So I like to be different. So we're doing that and then my actors who were part of my little skit thing I did, we're submitting it to film festivals now as a short and then we're working on towards making it a full length feature. That. That's my dream, to make it a lifetime.
[00:30:36] Speaker A: And you know, full disclosure, you know, like sometimes, you know, like. And I say, you know, because I'm married and I've sometimes have rolled my eyes at Lifetime movies. Like not in a. Like, you're just like. Because it's a Lifetime channel, right? Like as a. And you're just like. But, but that doesn't mean that the stories weren't true. They have. The way that those movies are made and created is for a specific reason. And sometimes, you know, Lifetime or things of that ilk can become. I don't want to say like, you know, like, I don't want to say it in a negative way, but they're real stories and they resonate with a particular group of people who can relate to it and that's their audience and that's the experiences those people had. Because I haven't had some of those experiences. Experiences. I sometimes will say, oh, it's a Lifetime movie. Right? They just off the, you know, not in a sneering way, but just because like, oh, there's another story of these. Well, these stories are real and they are.
[00:31:23] Speaker B: That's what I compare it to because they're like real stories.
[00:31:26] Speaker A: So, you know, and I'm looking forward to your opportunity to tell your story on a bigger platform like that. And I think, you know, I wish you all the continued success and more importantly, I'm really glad that you're here to talk about that because things like that sometimes don't have good endings.
[00:31:40] Speaker B: Absolutely. I know. Thank you for having me and telling my story. And like I said, if anybody is going through narcissistic abuse, just know that there are people, there are a community that can help you get out of these situations. Don't feel like you're hopeless because there is hope. Because if I can leave, you can leave, too. Just believe in yourself, you know, And.
[00:31:58] Speaker A: A lot of times, you know, on this show, I've, you know, I've talked to people who have invented things, created things, and, you know, have wonderful inventions and devices, but there's something that's something about the human heart emotion that you can't put in a lab and create and then say, this is what's. What's available to be sold. Because a lot of people, unfortunately, suffer silently. And so I thank you for this kind of, you know, it's a little emotionally taxing to hear some of this, but I'm glad I got a chance to sit down and listen to it.
[00:32:21] Speaker B: Yes, absolutely. Thank you for having me. I appreciate it.
[00:32:24] Speaker A: Anytime. Take care.
[00:32:25] Speaker B: Thank you. You too.
