Judy Rodman

[00:00:00] Speaker A: Back everyone, to the Tron podcast. This is your host, Rashad Woods. Today I have a very special guest. I'll be honest with him, kind of speechless right now because she reached out to me and I'm very honored that she did. Award winning country music artist, producer, vocal coach, entrepreneur, Judy Rodman, thank you so much. [00:00:16] Speaker B: I tell you what, the quality of your podcast, both the content and everything else, why would I not want to be on? So thank you for having me. [00:00:24] Speaker A: Oh, this, this. First of all. Yeah, well, first of all, thank you very much. And I'm very appreciative that I got to be honest with you. You know, your history and what you've accomplished and what you're still accomplishing is amazing. And so your story started at, you know, started singing at 17 and you navigated all sorts of avenues of music. So please just give a little bio of how you became Judy Rodman, the country music superstar. [00:00:46] Speaker B: Well, you know, in the arts the trail is always a rabbit trail. And so what you have to do. And I didn't know it at first, of course, and it was very scary when I would hit dead ends. But what I've understood now looking back, is that all the dead ends are just turning points, right? So, you know, I've been singing since I was actually two, you know, singing with my family, but professionally started at 17 doing jingles, you know, and so I started doing jingles in Memphis. At the time, my company, the Tanner Company, was supposedly doing like, I don't know, 75% of the world's jingles and ID packages. And we would sing from 8:30 in the morning till 3:30 in the afternoon. And sometimes if we didn't get done, we would be singing till 5:30 and then we would be singing five days a week and then sometimes Saturdays if we still didn't get done. So it was just a real factory. And there was no pitch fixing. This was in the early 70s. There was no fixing anything unless I did it myself. So of course I learned a ton. And I had no idea that how much of that I would be using in future. So, but anyway, so I got sick. That was one of the walls I bounced off. Alpha, I thought was the dead end when my son was born and I got lost an octave and a half of my range after spending three months in the hospital and having an endotracheal tube down. [00:02:14] Speaker A: Wow, that's terrible. [00:02:15] Speaker B: So just to make a long story short, two years later, I got my own voice back pretty much because I couldn't afford a vocal Coach. I got it back with a little bit of remembering some training I had in college from one classical course. And then just feeling. Just experimenting and getting my head voice. And I learned a ton about what damaged voices feel like and what it takes to get them back. So in the meantime, of course, my husband, who is a professional drummer at the company. We, we, we, we. You know, I wasn't able to work, and we needed to make some money. So Nashville was calling, and a lot of the people that we knew had already moved to Nashville, a lot of the session people. So we took the grand leap and. And moved to Nashville. I started doing a bunch of sessions. I had been doing a lot of sessions in Memphis from country like Charlie McLean and TG Shepard, his early hits, and also worked for Willie Mitchell at Ardent for a lot of the high record people. High records. And so it was just like. It was an amazing. And then when I moved to Nashville, the session work was all over the place. There was. There was background vocals on every album, and there were groups, and I knew enough to be able to plug into all those groups. I sort of innately was using what they call the Nashville number system already in Memphis, using roman numerals, like, I learned as a pianist. And so I understood it pretty quickly and started doing all the top sessions in Nashville. And so then I got to do a session for Ed Bruce with Tommy west, who was Jim Croce's producer. And Jim had died in a plane accident, so Tommy was looking for someone else to take over and a new artist. Like, he'd taken Jim Croce and he liked. I had started writing songs in Memphis, never thinking of myself as a songwriter, but I'd started writing songs. And so he liked the stuff I was writing, and he had something to prove. So he joined with Alan Stark from New York, and, I mean, Howard Stark from New York and Alan Bernard from la formed MTM Records, which was an offshoot of the movie. [00:04:38] Speaker A: I saw that. [00:04:39] Speaker B: Tyler Moore Company. [00:04:40] Speaker A: Yeah. Wow. [00:04:41] Speaker B: And I was the first artist they signed. [00:04:43] Speaker A: That's amazing. I saw that. I read that on your website biography, and I thought that was amazing. And you. You started, you know, really got signed at like 17, right? [00:04:52] Speaker B: No, I. At 17, I'd started doing jingles. I was in my. Okay, yeah, I was in my mid. By the time, you know, I'd had years and years of vocal, professional vocal work by then, but I. I was in my mid, mid-20s, late 20s when I signed with MTM. [00:05:10] Speaker A: Okay, okay. [00:05:11] Speaker B: Got my timeline confused. [00:05:12] Speaker A: Apologies. [00:05:13] Speaker B: Yeah. And there's something pretty cool. It's a pretty cool part of the story. You know, I got on the road, I had a number one record, I won the Academy of Country Music New Female vocalist award. And it looked like, you know, that story was gonna keep on going, right? [00:05:28] Speaker A: For sure. [00:05:29] Speaker B: One of the shows I got to do was I opened for Reba in Memphis at Mud island and backstage received a big bouquet of flowers from my old surgeon. One of my old surgeons that had seen me through three months of. In hospital and tons of surgery. Yeah. So, you know, and. And I. I'd gotten most of my voice back, and then I got with a professional coach named Gerald Arthur and got more than I'd ever had back. So I. Then I learned the power of. Of really professional vocal coaching to get all of a damaged voice back and, you know, had number one records. I thought I was going to keep on going forever, but then, then out of the blue, MTM got bought by bmg, which is a German company, and they decided they didn't write the record label. So overnight it disappeared, and so did I. Another brick wall. [00:06:23] Speaker A: Yeah, it's. [00:06:25] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:06:25] Speaker A: Crazy, you know, but, you know, I mean, unfortunately, you hear about those things that happen all the time, but you. Looks like you pivoted really well in your career because obviously. So how did you get into producing, songwriting, you and vocal coaching? And it's interesting because for the average person, losing their voice is even like, you know, a traumatic experience. But for your profession, right? I mean, I can't even begin to imagine. I mean, that is your. That is your tool. That is. I mean, it is. It's like losing your writing hand, you know. So how did you navigate such a traumatic experience? [00:06:55] Speaker B: It's funny that you say that because, you know, I told my surgeon that I'd lost that much of my voice, and he looked at me and all he could say is, well, you're alive. I saved your life. And I looked at Tim and I didn't say it, but I was thinking, what life? You know, this is my life. But I had a newborn baby, I had a husband, I had a family. And I. I didn't really. I had to either give up or just pull myself up and try something. So I started doing these Italian art songs, of all things at my piano and got my voice back. So. But I. So I hit the wall when the artist thing fell through. I mean, I was on People magazine. I was in Austin City Limits. I was on the Tonight Show. [00:07:41] Speaker A: It's like seeing some of the YouTube clips. It's insane. [00:07:44] Speaker B: The thing is, there's something worse than never making it, I think making it and that is making it and losing it. And then you feel like, you feel like a has been that never quite was. So I was really depressed, you know, and everything, and I thought, okay, what can I do? Well, I had been writing songs for mtm and some of my albums had. About half of them were my songs or, you know, about half of them. But so I leaned into songwriting, right, and was got signed by Warner, Warner Chapel, and got with a old friend of mine that I'd had named Dave Loggins. And he was out in LA when I won the ACM Award. He's just an old buddy. I did a bunch of the demos with him on, on his stuff. And if you look up Dave Loggins, you'll see what an incredible writer he was. He was a mentor. So anyway, he, you know, he signed me, they stopped, let me back up. I got signed with Warner Chapel and then I had a number one record which I didn't want to pitch to someone else because I wanted to use it to get back on the road myself. Right, right. So it got pitched out from under me to Chuck Howard, who is a producer with this no name, 13 year old named Leanne Rimes on Curb Records, who had never broken a new act that I knew of. So I'm like, okay, goodbye to that song. So anyway, long story short, it became a huge number one her, you know, wow, number one song. And then I sent flowers to the, the guy that pitched it to Chuck Howard. You gotta let your babies go. [00:09:23] Speaker A: That's crazy. That's unbelievable. Like, you know, like, oh, unknown. 13. I remember, like, you know, I'm 42 and I remember when she first came out, right. Like I want to say kind of, you know, obviously I've seen her career progress. [00:09:34] Speaker C: Right. [00:09:34] Speaker A: And you're like, weird because you saw her when she first came out as this teen prodigy. [00:09:38] Speaker B: Oh yeah. [00:09:39] Speaker A: All of a sudden she's this global superstar. So. [00:09:41] Speaker B: Right. [00:09:41] Speaker A: You know, Right. One question. Go ahead. I'm sorry, Please, go ahead. [00:09:45] Speaker B: No, go ahead. [00:09:46] Speaker A: I was just going to say, so, like, how does the songwriting process go? So I couldn't. I can't hold a musical note to save my life. My daughter, my oldest daughter in particular is in music. So how does the song, you know, writing process is collaboration. Is it singular? Is it. How does this, how does crafting a song actually work? [00:10:01] Speaker B: All of the above. It's an art, not a science. I, I had never read a book on songwriting or taken a course on songwriting. But here's what I did, and this. This is what I recommend, too. And if you do want to get some mentoring or look at books or courses, I highly recommend a guy named Jason Blume. B L U M E I think. But anyway, I had never done that. What I did to learn it was. I was dissecting songs. And back in Memphis, also, I was. I was in a cover. That's how I met my husband. And we were doing everything from Brazil 66 and 5th dimension to Chaka Khan. Wow. James Taylor. I mean, Carole King and all that. We. We just covered all that stuff. Well, in. I did some of the charting for us, and what I did was to learn it, I had to dissect what was going on in those records. And that was another incredible organic learning experience. And I did it for seven years, you know. [00:10:58] Speaker C: Right. [00:10:58] Speaker B: So I knew a lot more about songwriting than I thought I did. And so here's the bottom line. And I teach song songwriting. I mentor songwriting with the artists that I work with, too. My vocal students and my production clients. But you. You start the main. The most important thing is having an idea that's worth writing about. [00:11:17] Speaker A: Got it, got it, got it. You know, that's fascinating, you know, and I didn't mean to cut you off, but I'm just putting it in my head because I can't sing. But this is how I created this podcast, right? So it was like, it kind of. I can segue that into an idea, right? So, like, in my mind, it's like, now that it's compelling, it starts to come from the heart rather than something that I'm just going to make something and hope it's successful. Because there's a difference between the two. There's a massive difference between the two. [00:11:44] Speaker B: Right, right, right. And, you know, it's always great to write from your personal experience, but if you can't write from your personal experience about something, you can body snatch a friend or go to the airport and do some people watching and body snatch what you think their story might be. And if you can go there, you can go there as a human being. And, you know, that empathy that we. That we have, that's what. That's where we get our creativity from, for sure. We, yes, we kind of extend ourselves to another person's situation, and then you don't have to. There's a difference between the truth and facts. And not in a bad way, like, is going on a lot in the world, but in this way, truth is an idea. And you could Be writing a parable about it or a short story or something based on truth. And that's the best way to write songs where you're not limited by the exact thing that happened. [00:12:42] Speaker C: Right. [00:12:43] Speaker B: In fact, I wrote a song called she Thinks She'll Marry But She Never Will, which became a billboard top top 10. And it was written about my best friend who was dating a big country star that was married. And I was really worried about her because I didn't think it was going to go anywhere. Of course, I wrote her out of it. I wrote. Wrote this song where she was the victor in the end, and she did let it go, but, you know, he thinks that she'll marry but she never will. [00:13:11] Speaker C: Right. [00:13:12] Speaker B: Whereas the real story is she didn't marry that guy. And the guy she did marry, I was going to write another song called she Finally Got Married Married and Wish she Hadn't. [00:13:22] Speaker A: Oh, no. [00:13:25] Speaker B: So you write. You write from truth and you write from circumstances. And then, you know, I've started songs with a riff. Sometimes the song lyrics are in my fingertips. I'm keyboard, primarily keyboard based, although I have written on guitar. And you ask yourself, what does that sound, sound of the instrument, saying, wow. And then I've written from one line. I got one line from a guy. You write from that. And the one line didn't. Didn't end up being the title, but it's where the story started. [00:13:59] Speaker A: Got it. Got it. [00:14:01] Speaker B: And then One Way Ticket, Because I Can was called. Was actually called Because I Can. And the label wanted to rename it One Way Ticket. So we compromised on One Way Ticket, maneuvered that, navigated. Yeah, yeah. I was thinking One Way Ticket. That sounds kind of fatal, you know, whatever. But so I wrote that with Keith Hinton, my co writer. We were having lunch across the street from our. From Warner Chapel. And so at the. You know, it was getting late, and I said, well, let's go back. Let's go back to the studio. They had a little studio there. And I said, let's go. Let's go back to Warner Chapel because we can. And so Keith said, we should write that. And I thought, yeah, we should. And so I got home and turned it into Because I Can. Called him. And the rest is history. [00:14:48] Speaker A: Yeah, beautiful. So here's a question I asked. You know, you've navigated all these years of music, and obviously we're going to get to your vocal coach career. How does artificial intelligence factor in the songwriting now? [00:15:00] Speaker C: Right. [00:15:00] Speaker A: Because what's your perspective? Good, bad and different. I just need to know I am. [00:15:04] Speaker B: Very active on chat GPT. I'm following Denise Wakeman and Andy o' Brien's work with humanizing AI. I am what I know. See, I remember the time the Moog, that's a synthesizer, came out for the first time. The synthesizing like a Kurzweil, I think is somebody bought back in Memphis. And I remember all the players, the horn players, the string players freaking out because, oh, my God, they're gonna steal our work. We're never gonna. Why should we even take instrument lessons? You know, my whole life is over. But the smart ones bought their own synthesizers because they could program it the best and then there's nothing like the real thing, but they could use it when the budget that someone had, they couldn't. They couldn't afford, you know, real. Real players or real in the session. So the smart. The smart ones of us are going to realize those AI worms are not going back in the can. So we need to learn how to use it to help us like our assistant, without AI taking over. Like, the problem on streaming now is there's fake artists, Fake artists and fake songs, and guess what? They don't touch the human heart. I mean, they get the algorithm and they manipulate the algorithm rhythm so that they get streams and everything, but nobody's going to remember their lives by them. [00:16:34] Speaker A: It's very interesting, too, because obviously there's other pratfalls with that. Start to getting into royalties, you start getting the copyrights, you start getting into all the businesses and not just the entertainment aspect of it. [00:16:45] Speaker B: All right? [00:16:47] Speaker A: And to the degree, like even I've used Chat GPT, right? Because I think that in order to write a more succinct bio, it cleans up what I've typed up. Like, if I wanted to, when I do my website and do my blogs at the same time, I'll look at it and I'll say, that's not really what I wanted to say. It didn't say it in the right manner that I wanted to actually describe because it didn't come from me. And it can be. You can get lazy using that. You know, you can do it once or twice, but then it doesn't feel organic or you can, for lack of better term, using that sort of software platform. [00:17:18] Speaker B: You're speaking my language. You really can when it comes to AI. Trust but verify. Let me tell you a story that illustrates that point. I. I'm a podcaster as well. I have a podcast called All Things. All Things Vocal, right? And from the beginning, I've always Written my own posts and my own stuff, but lately, you know, I've enlisted the help of ChatGPT as an assistant. [00:17:41] Speaker A: Yes. [00:17:42] Speaker B: So, anyway, I ran into a situation where I recommend pineapple juice. And I'll tell your listeners right now, if you have vocal issues like dry throat, Flemmy throat, whatever, diluted pineapple juice won't add to acid reflux. And if you're not allergic to it, you should try diluted pineapple juice to sip during your vocal performances. Or you're speaking, you know, when you have to speak a lot. But anyway, I had a student that got a respiratory illness and lost her voice from that, but went to a laryngologist who said, oh, my gosh, it's the pineapple juice your vocal coach has been telling you to drink in the studio. And it freaked me out. So I'm like, what? Exactly. By the way, later, they totally admitted it was not the pineapple juice. It was just. It was just the infection, the respiratory infection. But it triggered me to go online, and you know how those AI snippets are coming up in. In all the time, right? [00:18:38] Speaker A: All the time. [00:18:39] Speaker B: Okay. So I put in the query, is pineapple juice dangerous for the voice? And what it came up with is, yes, it is. Unfortunately, add acid reflux and singers will do well not to drink it. And I'm freaking out because I've got decades of history with it and recommending it, and I've got acid reflux and have no problem with the diluted juice. So, AI, you know, trust but verify. So I enlisted ChatGPT to give me some online studies of why the bromelain enzyme in pineapple actually helps the voice. And it did. And so I notated, and I'm in the. I'm just about ready to publish that episode, but this is something you probably don't know. If you do, you're one of very few that I know in writing it and enlisting ChatGPT's help to do it and research it. Now, when you go on Google and you ask that same question, is pineapple juice dangerous for the voice? It changes its answer. [00:19:38] Speaker A: Nice. [00:19:39] Speaker B: And one of the. One of the places it cites is me is you talking about it on Reddit. [00:19:45] Speaker C: Right, Right. [00:19:46] Speaker A: So that's how deep. [00:19:46] Speaker B: That's the thing. Yeah. [00:19:48] Speaker A: So it's always running. It's always got something different facts. [00:19:52] Speaker B: Even when you haven't published it. Even when you haven't published yet. [00:19:55] Speaker A: You know that that's amazing. And, you know, so just to. Obviously, I want to talk about your Vocal coaching and things. I thought that was a fast, fascinating thing as well, too. But just briefly, how has the Internet and digital changed the way artists are located found in seeking and finding talent now? [00:20:12] Speaker C: Right. [00:20:12] Speaker A: Obviously it's a lot more wider pool, but does that dilute kind of the talent, so to speak, when people don't necessarily have to sing in front of a vocal coach or they can do something on YouTube or TikTok. What's your feeling on that? [00:20:23] Speaker B: The thing that never changed is that the more people that see you create, that creates visibility for you in what you do, the better. Okay, so in that way, the Internet has allowed a global reach where there was only a local reach. [00:20:39] Speaker A: Correct? Correct. [00:20:40] Speaker B: Paradoxically, it allows many more people to jump on the train and try to get visible. [00:20:45] Speaker A: One question. [00:20:45] Speaker B: But if you are good and you train to be even better and you make excellence, you know, your goal in everything that you do, you will stand out of the crowd. And so in that way, I don't fear the, the Internet with, with the artist thing. The more unfortunate thing is that what's going on with streaming, stealing songwriters pay. [00:21:08] Speaker A: Oh, my goodness. [00:21:09] Speaker B: And so, but you know, again, it's not going to go backwards. So we have to figure out what to do as artists and as songwriters to make a living, given the facts as they are. And one, you know, you do want to look at legislation and make sure, you try to make sure that AI created stuff is not copyrightable and things like that you can do. [00:21:30] Speaker A: Yeah, right. So, yeah. And the thing is about it is, I mean, I'm just a consumer, right. But I always appreciate what artists do and the work that they put out. But, you know, I was there when tapes came out. The next you're walking around the CD player and like, that's a big deal. And then all of a sudden, like, Napster hit, and here you are as a fan, like, this is the greatest thing in the world. And you have like, Metallica and everybody and Dr. Dre, like, I'm ready to kill somebody. You're like, but here you are just happy that you have all this access, not knowing the business and the work that was involved to get that music out to people. And so now, you know, the genie's out of the bottle, so to speak. Now you have cars that don't even have CD players in them. [00:22:07] Speaker C: Right. [00:22:07] Speaker A: And now. [00:22:08] Speaker B: Oh, exactly. In laptops that don't have CD players. [00:22:11] Speaker A: Laptops. But you want to make sure people are compensated rightfully for the work that they're putting out. So songwriting credit, which you know, I'm sure you're getting information and data every single day, you know, because you're right at the forefront of it. So I hope. [00:22:23] Speaker B: Well, it's always changing. It's going to keep changing. And we have to figure out the business model that works. Instead of whining about it, we have to face the reality of it. And then I love her. Your other guest's idea of stoic empathy, you know, and be loving and empathetic, but realize also having your feet on the ground and knowing what is going on and then doing what you can. But here's the thing about the arts. And music, of course, is part of the arts. Don't go into it unless you can't, not professionally. In other words, you're driven to it. It's in there and it's got to come out. Then if you don't do it, there'll be a big hole in your soul if you don't do it. So create. And then sometimes things catch fire, like one way ticket. Sometimes things catch fire and sometimes things don't. But sometimes things catch fire. Decades later that you wrote. So my, my mantra is, whatever it is that you're doing, go for excellence, questionably, and look for the open windows without question where people that would like that or need that thing that you're creating can find it. Yeah. [00:23:34] Speaker A: And you hit the nail on the head. And every time, you know, even though I can't sing or play an instrument to save my life, I always think about again to parallel back to the podcast. [00:23:42] Speaker C: Right. [00:23:42] Speaker A: It takes a little bit of a singer slash artist in you to put this out. [00:23:46] Speaker C: Right? [00:23:46] Speaker B: Oh, yes, right. [00:23:48] Speaker A: And there's a fear of like, you know, my voice. And I was listening to your podcast when you talk about opening up your diaphragm and speaking properly and breath control. [00:23:57] Speaker C: Right. [00:23:58] Speaker B: And right, right. [00:23:59] Speaker A: Even when I'm talking, you know, and I did now earlier, I would find myself walking out of talking, getting out of breath, talking earlier in earlier episodes because it's a lot harder than people think that it is when you don't know how to pause and have structure sentences. It's easy to write comments. It's hard to, to actually speak with a pause. [00:24:16] Speaker B: Right. [00:24:16] Speaker A: You know, and so it, so it trains you and it makes for a poor experience when you're, okay, I gotta stop, I gotta pause and catch my breath. And you're like, oh man, this sounds terrible. So, you know, there's a lot of parallels and that's why one of the things I want to segue to was your vocal coach career. Because I thought that was amazing that you're a vocal coach now not just for singers and songwriters, but also for public speaking. So right when you navigate into that field of work, what was that experience, that segue to your career like? [00:24:44] Speaker B: Well, again, it was because my songwriting career hit a brick wall. I mean, they weren't cutting my songs. Whether they just weren't cutting my songs. The songwriting style changed and. And just. It just happened. I sort of think we're not alone in the world, and I feel like that was a plan. It was like an evil plan at the time. But I couldn't. I couldn't go on. So I had to pivot, and I decided, okay, I can. I'll do organic gardening. I can make organic garden plans, or. This girl named Carol Chase was singing with Leonard Skynyrd, and she was an old friend of mine. She was an old friend of mine. We had done a lot of sessions together, and she knew I knew stuff. She knew I knew how to suggest things that would help her sing the way I wanted her to for a particular thing when I was leading the group. So she came to me one day when she first started the tour and said she was having trouble reaching one of these high notes, Could I help her? And I looked at her like, why do you think? I know, right? But I didn't say that. And I made a suggestion, and it worked, right? So when I hit the wall as a songwriter, I thought, okay, maybe I can coach voices. So I put. I put an ad in the paper for vocal coaching and one for organic garden design. And which one. Guess which one got called vocal coaching. So I didn't have any vocal coaching degree. I mean, I'd taken music in college and all that. But what I had at that point was decades of experience, all of that stuff. And I knew, just like songwriting, decades of experience dissecting songs. So I was working not only with my own voice, but directing other voices through the years in session work. And anyway, so I was successful. I was. Hell, I was able to help people. So I got curious, and then I dug into everybody's systems. I asked doctors, chiropractors, you know, Alexander Technique. Yeah, practitioners. I took lessons from him. And I just learned why when I did something that worked, why it was working that way, I could do it on purpose rather than by accident. Because that's what a lot of people, you know, that speak well or sing well at first they run into maybe a respiratory illness or some something, and it makes them push or try Too hard, and then it gets worse. And what do they do about that? Well, they just push or try too hard, even more. [00:27:03] Speaker C: Right, right. [00:27:04] Speaker B: So if you. The thing is, it's easy to do, but it's also easy to correct. [00:27:10] Speaker C: Right. [00:27:10] Speaker B: So if you. For instance, I'm using this SM7B here broadcast mic. If I move away from it like this, and it's forward, you can hear my voice thin right now. And I'm going to have a little bit more vocal fry. But if I move my feet in or my butt in, if I was sitting, then it makes my head balance over my heel instead of the balls of my feet. Right. Or my tailbone if I'm sitting. And that immediately opens my throat and opens my rib cage, which is where the diaphragm is connected. And that needs to widen so that you have a lid on your compression engine, which is your breath engine, and that your diaphragm is wide. Well, if you just change your posture, if you just balance your head farther back without lifting your chin, you've opened your throat and you've given yourself breath control. [00:27:59] Speaker A: It's so funny you say that, because I saw that on your Instagram and I was like, you know what? Because I have a tendency. You don't even. Even when you take a picture, you're raising your head like I do. I'm notorious for it. I looked at old pictures myself. I'm like, what are you doing, dude? This is awful. [00:28:12] Speaker C: Right? [00:28:13] Speaker A: And so I was. I was watching that, and I said, you can notice you're less out of breath when you actually are structured and you're open up. And it sounds like a cliche because, you know, your parents always tell you, sit up, son. Sit up. You know. [00:28:23] Speaker B: Right, right. [00:28:24] Speaker A: You know, like, what do you mean? Don't slouch. And it's like, it really does matter. And that's one of the things I saw when I was going on your Instagram, you know, page, because you're giving all these tips and insights and, you know, and it probably helps that mucus from even sitting in your lungs. After a while, I imagine, oh, it opens everything. [00:28:40] Speaker B: Yet first it brings the mucus up. So you have to get rid of it. But that's where pineapple juice can help, right? Try, Try have people listening and watching out there. If you lift your chin, notice what happens in your rib cage. Your rib cage tightens. [00:28:55] Speaker A: Yes. [00:28:56] Speaker B: That means your diaphragm is too much slack in it has too much slack in it, and it can move too much air. You don't have control of air. You don't have control of your voice. You don't have enough air because you're losing too much of it. But if you rock your head down and pull back kind of cocky like that, you'll notice your rib cage opens, your ears even open, your throat opens, which you've got. You can have more resonance in your voice. Like I say, it brings up frogs if you have them. And you also have control over your breath. Right. [00:29:29] Speaker A: What are the common. You know, because I could pick your brain all day because this is so. I'm so honored that you came. [00:29:34] Speaker B: So much fun. [00:29:35] Speaker A: How do you. What are the common mistakes that people make who come out who want to sing and have, you know, they're told, you know, either in church or their inner circle, hey, you have a really good voice. But there's more to singing than just being able to have a good voice and hold a good note. [00:29:50] Speaker B: Oh, yeah. [00:29:51] Speaker A: You know, it's like sports. Like, everybody is. Is athletic at a certain point. [00:29:56] Speaker C: Right. [00:29:57] Speaker A: It just becomes the nuances of how that's utilized. So what. What area do people who can sing navigate to? Actual being a good performer, songwriter, producer? Because it can't just be, I can hit a note, so to speak. [00:30:09] Speaker B: Right, Right. Well, the. The most common physical mistake people make is using too much air to create volume. [00:30:19] Speaker A: Okay. [00:30:19] Speaker B: Volume should come from resonation. [00:30:21] Speaker A: Okay. [00:30:22] Speaker B: So if I go, like, if I go, you make me. See, that's kind of tight. Right? [00:30:28] Speaker C: Right. [00:30:29] Speaker B: You make me feel like a natural. So that's really, really open. Yeah, I'm pulling. I call it pulling instead of pushing for power. So that's the number one mistake that you physically make. And the way you fix it, you know, has a lot to do with posture and rocking your head down as you pull back. The even more important mistake that I see people make is because of hidden voices in our heads that say, your goal should be to sing or speak. Well, yeah, that's right. Okay. What is that? It's like getting on a horse and looking down and going, okay, horse, move. Well, it's going to buck you off and go to the barn. [00:31:09] Speaker A: Oh, my gosh. [00:31:11] Speaker B: No. This thing in our neck is only there for one reason. It's to deliver messages. [00:31:18] Speaker C: Right. [00:31:18] Speaker B: And not only that, but to deliver messages to the one heart. [00:31:24] Speaker C: Right. [00:31:24] Speaker B: And that can be a specific heart. What heart? The heart. The lyric or your speech. The heart. The lyric is to. Not necessarily the audience. [00:31:33] Speaker C: Right. [00:31:33] Speaker B: It could be to yourself, could be to God, could be to the one heart of the Venue. [00:31:39] Speaker A: For sure. For sure. [00:31:41] Speaker B: I teach professors and ministers and teachers, and sometimes if they feel like they're not reaching their class, it's because they're trying to do the flashlight thing, which is like, talk to everybody at once, instead of the laser beam thing, which is talk to the one and then move the one over here. [00:32:01] Speaker C: Right. [00:32:01] Speaker B: And that's a. That's an instant stage presence creator, by the way. [00:32:07] Speaker A: Beautiful. [00:32:07] Speaker B: Yeah. So, you know, even when we're. We're doing podcasts, like, I'm talking to this camera here. You are down there. [00:32:17] Speaker A: Exactly. And I'm telling you, like, there's times, like, you know, because the screen is over here, so it's easy to look at the person over here, and then you're like, dude, stare straight ahead. [00:32:26] Speaker C: Right? [00:32:26] Speaker A: And you're like, you know, I was looking at tips of how to do this podcast, and it's like, it's very easy to see the person on the screen, and you're going like this. It's like, dude, what are you looking at? [00:32:35] Speaker C: Right? [00:32:35] Speaker A: You have to stare straight ahead. And there's subtle nuances, you know, and the creativity of it all is, I think, the most beautiful part about songwriting and listening is we get to just be the listener of the final product, so we don't get the chance to see how things came, you know, from the farm to the butcher shop to the grocery shelf, so to speak. [00:32:55] Speaker B: Right? [00:32:55] Speaker A: So here I am just turning on my SiriusXM radio on my Pandora or YouTube, and I'm like, dude, this is just. I'm having a great time. And you're like, yeah, but you don't realize what it really took to get that song out, you know? [00:33:06] Speaker B: You know, it's just if you focus on the one. If you. Whoops, did I think I might have turned it off? Can you hear me? [00:33:13] Speaker A: No, I can hear you. [00:33:14] Speaker B: Okay, good. If you focus on the one, it changes how your voice acts. Say, if I go, don't do that again. Like, I'm talking to a little kid. Of course he's going to do it again. If I go, don't do that again. [00:33:27] Speaker C: Right. [00:33:28] Speaker B: It's liable not to do it again. So I have to be careful how I talk to my little puppy. You know, he's listening to my tone of voice more than my words. But everybody is. It's acting technique. But real acting, as Sanford Meisner says, is behaving authentically in fictitious circumstances. So you have to get real. And then the listeners. Our gravy. Grammy Awards are gravy. [00:33:51] Speaker C: Right. [00:33:52] Speaker B: The real Goal should be not only to communicate to one heart, but to get that heart to respond. [00:33:59] Speaker A: Absolutely. [00:33:59] Speaker B: With facial or body language that says they got what you're saying, you're making them feel what you wanted to. Because you have to use your imagination if. If they're not really there. [00:34:11] Speaker C: Right. [00:34:11] Speaker B: Which is most of the time. Well, it's acting technique, but it's being authentic and being real within that circumstance or that song. [00:34:18] Speaker A: Well, I think it's funny too, because, you know, I have to broadcast, you know, and be on this podcast. Five people could watch, but that doesn't mean I can pack it in. [00:34:25] Speaker C: Right. [00:34:25] Speaker A: You know, it could be five or it could be 500. [00:34:27] Speaker B: Right. [00:34:28] Speaker A: Thousand people. [00:34:28] Speaker B: Right. [00:34:29] Speaker A: So your performance still has to speak for itself. You have to have a compelling message, you have to have compelling questions to ask. You have to have a good rapport with the person that you're talking to. And it's irrespective of the level of audience that's listening. And so it goes both ways. And I think that, you know, part of the reason, I think you and I have had a good vibes back and forth because we both have a compelling story and we both understand you much more than me. [00:34:53] Speaker C: Right. [00:34:53] Speaker A: That authenticity is the key to being successful in your field, you know, and. [00:34:59] Speaker B: And the key to a prosperous journey yourself, which has a lot more to do than any award that you could get. But like feeling that you've been a value in the world, which. That's how you're valuable. [00:35:10] Speaker A: Yeah, no question. You know, and like I said, I think that you have, you know, a biography that I can't even summarize in a 35, 40 minute interview because I went down the wormhole. I'm like, when people have Wikipedia pages, it pauses me in my tracks because they don't. I don't deserve to talk to people. [00:35:28] Speaker C: Right. [00:35:29] Speaker B: Scary though, because you don't write those Wikipedia pages. [00:35:33] Speaker A: Yeah, that's true. That's, that's, that's very true. But you know, still, you know, it's one of those things that you are definitely very grateful for and I would love to have a follow up interview with you because I think that there's. [00:35:45] Speaker B: So much we could talk about even more. Yeah, I'm not done yet. I've got musical theater stuff going on. Yeah, I've got. Yeah, I think I wake up every morning thinking, what can I get into today? [00:35:58] Speaker A: Nice, nice. Yeah, you got the luckiest. You got the greatest profession in the world. Just briefly, people like you are well accomplished, but I love Always when people, to answer the question of where's Judy Rodman? How can people find her life that they need me. [00:36:10] Speaker B: Www.judyrodman.com that will take you everywhere you need to go. And while you're there, you should pick up a freebie that I offer that's good for anybody that uses their voice for anything. And that's like nine pages of vocal health tips. So just, you know, get that. You'll see, you'll see that on my site. But you can connect me with me there. You can contact me there. You can check out a lot of, as you alluded to, I've got a lot of free vocal lessons in the form of YouTube videos. Yeah, there's a link to that and there's a link to my courses and everything else. But yeah, Judy rodman.com I think that. [00:36:47] Speaker A: You know, your confidence speak for themselves. I can't wait to have a follow up interview with you. And like I said, five decades of songwriting, vocal coaching, and multiple awards and the skies continue to be the limit. And I am honored that you absolutely carved out a little bit of time in your busy schedule to be on the Tron podcast. [00:37:03] Speaker B: Thank you. You are too kind. And congratulations on this thing that you've created. I really enjoy it and I look forward to following you. [00:37:12] Speaker A: Thank you very much. It's been a honor and pleasure. Thank you, Judy Rodman. [00:37:15] Speaker B: You got it. Thanks. [00:37:16] Speaker A: But I had a blast. [00:37:18] Speaker B: Okay, me too. [00:37:19] Speaker A: I had an absolute. Yeah, I thought that was a lot of fun, you know, and I got to be honest with you, you know, like I said, I was.