Stuart Jaffe

[00:00:00] Speaker A: Welcome back everyone, to the Tron podcast, the Randomness of Nothing. I have a very special guest today, a very accomplished author and person that actually is from my home state of Michigan, now in North Carolina, has written over 60 novels and more importantly, martial arts, like myself, Mr. Stuart Jaffe. Thank you so much, sir, for joining. [00:00:16] Speaker B: Thank you for having me. [00:00:17] Speaker A: I gotta tell you, you know, like, first of all, thank you for reaching out to me. And you know, I love the fact that you reached out because there's a lot of things that I saw in your background that really synced up to what was really up my alley. So first, just give a quick background about yourself. [00:00:29] Speaker B: Sure. I'm Stuart Jaffe. I'm an author best known for this, the Max Port of Paranormal mysteries. I've written over 60 novels. I've been doing this for like 30 years. I was originally born in Jersey, but I lived in Michigan for several years. I've lived all over the country. Now I'm in North Carolina, been, like I said, I've been writing for about 30 years and continue to do. Love it and we'll keep doing it. I. What else can I tell you? I. I studied martial arts at taekwondo for a long time. [00:00:58] Speaker C: Right, right. [00:00:59] Speaker B: Originally came up through the ranks in learning Mutaquan Taekwondo, which is the traditional. Actually meant for fighting techniques. [00:01:08] Speaker A: Yes, it is. Yes, it is. [00:01:10] Speaker B: And then, then when I moved down here, really couldn't find a mutant school. There was one, but I just was not impressed. So I ended up doing what you find more in America, which is just for support sport. [00:01:22] Speaker C: Right. [00:01:23] Speaker B: And. And I did that for many years and we actually went and competed in Korea and it was amazing. [00:01:32] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:01:32] Speaker B: But then, then I had a knee injury and my surgeon basically said, I said, can I get back to Marshall to doing Taekwondo? And he said, sure, but I'll see you in five years to replace your entire knee. And that kind of stopped me. [00:01:45] Speaker A: Yeah, that's a bit of a humble plot. I had a micro fracture surgery on my knee about five years ago. And so, you know, you don't realize what. When the bone, the bone starts actually rubbing on the knee and like you're like, oh, it's only like a, you know, less than a dime size. I'll tell you one thing, it felt like the Grand Canyon on your knee because that pain and oh my gosh, it was ridiculous how painful it was. And knee injuries obviously are common because you're constantly exploding, making quick movements and things like that. And you find out real quick that age and wear and tear really takes a toll on you when it comes to that. [00:02:14] Speaker B: And some of them, like taekwondo is. You're familiar with this I'm sure sure called a hard martial art because the, it's very impact. You know, our blocks are actually attacks. [00:02:23] Speaker A: Yes. [00:02:24] Speaker B: As opposed to some of the. The more fluid I'd looked at, I wanted to do. Replace it with a softer fluid thing like kung fu. [00:02:32] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:02:33] Speaker B: But it's so much of that. You have to get so low to the ground and that requires bending your knees and have. And I just. Those days are behind me. I was a young man back then. [00:02:42] Speaker A: Yeah. It's tough to let it go. I have a. I have a black belt in a Tung Soo do. So obviously we have know, for lack of better terms, pretty much the same style that we've come from because they're just from the same tree. So I know I could go down the wormhole of martial arts all day with you and I practice a couple other different styles. But it's always nice to have those conversations with people. [00:03:00] Speaker B: Oh sure, sure. [00:03:00] Speaker A: You know. So Max Porter, first of all, how did you actually get into writing? What inspired you? And I saw that it's a, it's in Winston Salem. It's about a. A 1940 where it's a. It's a ghost that took over. It's. [00:03:12] Speaker B: It's. [00:03:13] Speaker A: It's a ghost series. Can you get a little more detailed into that? [00:03:16] Speaker B: So I started writing. I'd always dabbled in writing and I just love telling stories. And my undergrad degree is in theater and directing theater. And so I started writing plays and that got me writing. And it was. And I would write short stories and things like that. But then coming out of. I guess I was right out of college, I just wanted to see if I could write a novel. And I knew I could. I knew from my previous writing experience that I could commit to writing at least one page in a day minimum. That's not that hard. I could do that in back then it would take me maybe an hour and that's just not that much. Now I could do page in a few minutes, but. [00:03:59] Speaker C: Right. [00:03:59] Speaker B: But back then I didn't know what I was doing. So I gave myself. I said just, just. And maybe, you know, sometimes that one page would take me two or three hours. I didn't know what I was doing right. But I figured if I just did it once a day for a year, that would be 365 days. That seemed to me like the length of a novel and maybe it would make sense. And maybe it wouldn't. And so I did, and I completed that. And I mean, it was a horrible mess of a novel, but I did it. And. And once you've climbed that mountain, you realize, oh, I can do this. And now you. And there are plenty of people who do, who finish their novel, and they're like, okay, I did it. I'm moving on to something else. I never want to do that again. And then there are those of us who get bit by the bug, and we're like, oh, I could do it better now. Now I know I want to try this. Now I'm trying that. And so one thing led to another. And this is my career as far as Matt Order goes. I'd been. We moved, my wife and I. My fan, my son, too, we moved down here to Winston Salem. At the time, my wife was doing her master's at Wake Forest University. So I was looking for something, a new thing to write. And I ended up spending a lot of time in the university library because I would go to wait from. You know, I had to kill time while I was waiting for. [00:05:18] Speaker A: Exactly. Exactly. [00:05:19] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:05:20] Speaker B: To pick her up or whatever was going on. So one day I'm in the library, and I don't really remember how I ended up in this particular section of the library or how it all came about, but I'm looking through this book on history of the area because I knew nothing about where I was living. So I'm. You know, I was kind of curious, and I fell into this little nugget of information that started the whole thing, which was that I found out that During World War II, the soldiers, the U.S. soldiers were. You know, these are a bunch of young guys. Cigarettes being mass produced were. Was a. Relatively speaking, a newer thing, or at least becoming more popular. And part of what made it so popular was they were easily transported, you know. You know, and all this stuff, you could just pick one up and you're. [00:06:04] Speaker A: In North Carolina, too, which is tobacco. Rove too. [00:06:07] Speaker B: Right, right. So you have all these soldiers over in England waiting for D Day. And even after, throughout the whole war, you know, they're just smoking and smoking and smoking because they're freaking out. And the president comes to RJ Reynolds and says to him, look, we need more cigarettes. We're not. We don't have enough. And he's. He's like, well, I could move. I mean, my factories could go 24 7, but I just don't have the manpower. So the US brought in German POWs and we set up little mini German POW prison camps all throughout the state. There were like 20, some of them. Each one would only have like a dozen to, you know, 18, 19. And they would bust them into Winston Salem at night, have them work through the night, and get them out before anybody woke up. [00:06:59] Speaker A: Wow. [00:06:59] Speaker B: And I knew. I think most people know something about World War II. And I'd read stuff about the actual battles and all this. Never heard anything about German POWs on u. S. Soil. [00:07:12] Speaker A: Didn't hear about that. [00:07:13] Speaker B: And there's a story here and. And that's kind of how it all began because. Because essentially. Well, so that. That was there. That was this historical thing. And I started thinking I can put a mystery into that. [00:07:25] Speaker A: Nice. [00:07:26] Speaker B: And it's just. Nature of my. Everything I write has always ended up getting either science fictiony or fantasy driven. And so I wasn't that shocked when a ghost popped up. And so the whole. The whole series is about how this husband and wife move down to Winston Salem and they discover his office is haunted by this ghost of a 90s detective. [00:07:48] Speaker A: Beautiful. [00:07:49] Speaker B: And together they all put together. They started detective agency, a paranormal investigation agency. And. And I take real history, every book in the series. There's like 19 now. Every single one. I take real history of the area of the whole. That is the state, what we call the triad. And I mix it with witches and ghosts and curses and magic. [00:08:12] Speaker A: Woody Harrelson, true Detective the first season that was in, like, the bayou, and it was so different because it was an area that hasn't been explored a lot on television and film. And so it was a different setting. So it immediately captivated you by its surroundings. So the fact that you have something based in North Carolina, you know, in this area, automatically piques my interest. So you've got 19 books. So what other historical things did you find out? I will. True Detective did a really good job of opening up, like, that bayou area where you get a chance to see something different. And the cinematography is part of the story. [00:08:47] Speaker C: Right. [00:08:48] Speaker A: There's not, you know, I'm not saying cities down south or on certain coasts don't have large buildings, but there's a lot of historical references that sometimes don't get the attention that they deserve in media. And it shows. So how much did the background of the area like in North Carolina, which doesn't get a lot of media play, really impact the storytelling? [00:09:07] Speaker B: Well, I'd say it's everything because again, I'm taking real history of this area so that one of the. One of the fun parts of writing the max Porter books are that leading up to the actual writing the book I have to do research on. On these things. So I find a piece and. And then I can actually go to the place. [00:09:26] Speaker A: Nice. [00:09:26] Speaker B: And see what it is. And so. And some of them are underwhelming and some of them are overwhelming. There's one book here. I'll give you two examples from both. From the opposite ends, there's a famous place called the Devil's Tramping Ground. [00:09:45] Speaker C: Oh, wow. [00:09:46] Speaker B: And this is this. It used to be in the middle of the woods, but world has grown around it. But it's this just a section in the woods where nothing grows. It's like a. It looks almost like a perfect circle and it's just like if. Just it's all dead. And supposedly if you put like something out there, you come back in the morning and that thing will have been thrown to the side. And the idea that the, the. The legend is that. That it's the devil walking around in circles. Yep. As he tries to make up his evil plans. [00:10:18] Speaker A: Oh my goodness. [00:10:19] Speaker C: Wow. [00:10:20] Speaker B: In reality, it's a salt lick like a. Some thousands of years and salts and nothing can grow because it's salty and still. And so, you know, it's got this, this legend. So I wanted to use this area, so I went and found it. And it's not hard to find because it's absolutely littered with beer cans and condoms and things because a. Teenagers go there and party. [00:10:45] Speaker C: Right, right, right. [00:10:46] Speaker B: So it's, it's. And what's. It's one of those things where there's. There's the. I think they changed the name of it, but there used to be the Devil's Trapping Ground Road, which. And, and literally you can like see the road from the. The ground. Like it's not like you have to go in, walk an hour into the woods. [00:11:03] Speaker A: It's like right. [00:11:04] Speaker B: 30 seconds there, you know, if you. [00:11:07] Speaker A: For sure. [00:11:08] Speaker B: It was just. And then I was there and I, you know, I'm like, okay, this is it. [00:11:13] Speaker A: Yeah. Somewhat inconsignificant. [00:11:15] Speaker B: Right, right. So it was not very exciting. However, by being there, I'm taking. I was able to take pictures of the area because I was using this for the big climax of one of the books. And so I was able to get a lay of the land, get a feel for. Oh, this is over here. This is over here. Oh, I would never known that. There's a tree stump in the middle of this thing and I could use that. You know, that kind of. So even an underwhelming one can be useful. But on the other end is a place called Kerner's Folly. Was a. This is a house in Kernersville, North Carolina. Which is like. [00:11:52] Speaker A: I've heard of it. Yeah. [00:11:54] Speaker B: It's like 30, 40 minutes east of. Of Winston Salem. And the house and the town are named after Mr. Kerner who was a. A interior. The equivalent of an interior decorator now. And you can go to his. This house and get a tour. Which I did. And it's. It's a weird, weird house. There's a very logical reason for it. But when you go in, it's weird from. It's almost like. It's almost like at times like being in an MC F drawing. Like nothing makes sense. Like there are. There are stairs that just go into a wall or there are no doors of the same. No trim is the same. There's. I forget how many floors. There's a lot of floors of the house. And when you go up, there's a half floor. So there's like floors one and two and then there's three and a half. Which I'm a short guy. I'm like five, three, five, four. [00:12:49] Speaker A: Okay. [00:12:50] Speaker B: Touching the. The ceiling. [00:12:52] Speaker C: Oh wow. [00:12:53] Speaker B: And then. And then there's. There's a huge ballroom that has these really freaky marionettes that are the whole of the family. And then in the attic is a replica of the house. So there's all the other weird things. [00:13:10] Speaker A: A replica of the house upstairs in the attic. That's crazy. [00:13:13] Speaker B: Right? So now it's all crazy. Now I will. So, you know, again I get all these pictures of this stuff and I'm able to use it for the book that things I would never have known about. [00:13:23] Speaker C: Right, right. [00:13:24] Speaker B: All of it. However, when you know the history. Actually it's very unexciting. It's simply that again, he was an interior decorator and an interior designer. And so he used his house as a showroom. [00:13:37] Speaker A: Yep. [00:13:37] Speaker B: So yeah. All the different doors or models you could buy and you could see what a door looks like. The staircase is just a. I could build a staircase like this. [00:13:46] Speaker A: He was selling it as soon as people came and visited. [00:13:49] Speaker B: Absolutely. Here's the different trims you could have. And then the half floor is. Has nothing to do with selling. It's merely. He wanted to build a rooms for his children that they could function in that weren't oversized because they're small and the world is big. [00:14:06] Speaker A: Absolutely. Absolutely. [00:14:07] Speaker B: The replica of the house is just a dollhouse of the house daughter. [00:14:13] Speaker C: Right. [00:14:13] Speaker B: And then the other Cool thing about that house, by the way, is that that the attic was converted into a theater, like a space, and they put plays on there for the locals and all that. [00:14:26] Speaker A: That's awesome. [00:14:27] Speaker B: It is the first private small theater in the United States that was ever built. [00:14:32] Speaker A: And see, those are the things that you don't hear about. Right. Until you actually research and visit and look things up and actually, I mean, you know. [00:14:38] Speaker B: Right. [00:14:39] Speaker A: There's a. There's a beauty in being a person that actually visits a place that a place like that actually exists because you're not going to know that information. You know, Wikipedia is a great tool, but there's no substitute for this being done around the corner from where you live. [00:14:50] Speaker B: Sure. [00:14:51] Speaker C: Right. [00:14:52] Speaker B: And again, you get all, you get all the, these textures that you can use in your book, the smells and sounds of the room, and especially a house like that. They're like, there's. You come into the. It's been many years since I've been there. You can't. I think you come up the stairs into the attic and then behind the stage, there's like, not secret, but it's kind of like a hidden staircase. Very narrow. Like it was clearly not built there originally. Go back down. Because they had to, they had to fit a whole theater in there. So they put the dressing rooms downstairs. [00:15:26] Speaker C: Right? Yeah. [00:15:28] Speaker A: So that was entire. Accomplishing entire location. [00:15:32] Speaker B: That's something I'm going to use. I, you know, because it's narrow and freaky. [00:15:35] Speaker A: Very, very interesting. I wish I could get visit a place like that. I could lose my mind in a place like that. [00:15:40] Speaker B: Did I get locked out again? I think we're back. [00:15:43] Speaker A: Okay. We're good. Yeah. And so, you know, just in my mind right now, what I'm picturing out is like, you got these plays and you got a replica of this house, and I haven't read your books yet, but in my mind I'm picturing like. [00:15:54] Speaker B: A murder at a play or a. [00:15:56] Speaker A: Murder in a house that has those steps like that or some sort of, you know. [00:16:00] Speaker B: Absolutely. Something that's happened. [00:16:02] Speaker A: Right. [00:16:02] Speaker B: Something took that house. I've completely forgot about this because this is like the second or third book that uses this location. The day I went there to look at it, they had just that, like that week, they had just been officially the, the, The North Carolina Paranormal Society had officially said that that attic was haunted. [00:16:23] Speaker C: Right, right, right. [00:16:25] Speaker B: So I, I, you'll have to read the book because I don't, I don't even remember what the whole haunting deal was, but I used it. And so, yeah, there's a ghost in that attic. And so I use that as a. As a major part of the story. [00:16:38] Speaker A: It's beautiful. Yeah. And I, Like I said, my mind just started spinning as soon as I could see myself walking through that, right? Like that. That Jennifer Lopez movie from like 2000. Like the Cell, right. When they. She was like, in the mind of Vincent denaf's character. And you're like, this movie wasn't necessarily great, but I've never seen anything like that done before. [00:16:54] Speaker B: Right. [00:16:55] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:16:55] Speaker B: Oh, yes. Strange murders are a great thing. Strange crimes. One of the books deals with. There was a. Right after the end of the Civil War, there was a train full of gold that was going from one part of North Carolina to another that was, you know, being shipped for. To be transported for the army or whatever. [00:17:15] Speaker C: Right. [00:17:16] Speaker B: And the train never arrived. And event they eventually, you know, found it, but it was empty. There's still people to this day who will take metal detectors and go up and down that section of the line looking for, you know, lost trinkets of gold that may have gotten stolen for sure. But no, what happened to it all? Like, it's never been found. [00:17:36] Speaker A: That's insane. [00:17:37] Speaker B: I mean, you don't any. Anything like that. That kind of history. Oh, yeah, this has happened, but here's this gap where we don't know what happened. That's the perfect thing I can find because then I can fill in that gap with whatever. [00:17:49] Speaker A: With your own imagination. The crazy part is, is people sometimes have to think relatively like, we're a country of what, 325 million people, but like a large swath of this country has. Doesn't have people who live in it. [00:18:00] Speaker C: Right. [00:18:00] Speaker A: It's a huge. It's a massive country. [00:18:03] Speaker B: Right. [00:18:03] Speaker A: So people like, oh, you know, I live in a crowded city. I don't live in a crowded city. Whether you do, whether you don't. Well, like 80 of the population does not live in a. In an urban, congested area. So there's a large portion of this country that if you take a train or take a bus, you know, you're going to fields and fields and fields. And in those fields and in those mountains and in those hills are stories that just don't get told. And then it gets passed down locally. And someone like yourself can suddenly say, you know what? I think I can use my mysterious and mischievous mind to really plug some holes in here and use the historical reference with my own imagination and get something really beautiful coming up. And that's Wonderful. [00:18:39] Speaker B: Yeah. Wherever you live, whoever's listening to wherever you live, there are endless stories people keep. I have fans would be like, are they ever going to do anything outside of North Carolina? And I'm like, there's too many stories already here. I don't need to go anywhere else. [00:18:52] Speaker A: Right, so how does. This is a separate question kind of still at the alley of writing, though. How does AI impact writing now? Like, I mean, obviously you did it the traditional way. Now there's artificial intelligence. What's the difference? And how is that transition in your writing career, if at all? [00:19:07] Speaker B: Well, it doesn't affect me and I don't use it. And I. I strongly urge anybody who wants to be a writer not to. I mean, it's kind of like AI music, AI being used as a creation of art is pointless and stupid because art and entertainment is part of art. Art exists because it is the act of human beings talking to other human beings about what it means to be a human being. That's what we're doing. That's why we. That's why stories, whether it's a story told through music or through a play or a movie or a book or a painting or sculpture, whatever art form you have, that's what we're doing. Even if it's John Wick, you know, something that's really just there for action. It's there to say to you, well, you're a human being. Here's. Here's what a human being in this situation, this crazy situation you'll never be in, right? But now you put yourself in those shoes, you can vicariously think about it. And there's. And you'd be surprised. I've had. I write fantasy and science fiction. One of my first series was a post apocalyptic fantasy when magic caused the apocalypse. I always describe it as Xena meets Mad Max. Pure, nice, just violent, action packed adventure, right? And I had a lady come up to me shortly after the, like the third book. It's a six book series, but there was like, like three books into it. And she comes up to me, I'm selling my books at a convention and she says, I want to thank you for writing this. I'm like, great, that's nice. Ego pack. No, no, no. It helped me so much. And I'm thinking this helped you? This. How about this? [00:20:47] Speaker A: This is on the deep end, right? You know what I mean? [00:20:51] Speaker B: This last year I was a really, really hard time in my life. And there was really hard to sometimes just to get out of bed and get going and, and. But Whenever I thought about this book, the. The main character of the book, her name is Malia, and she would say, malia's life was so much worse than mine. And she was able to still go, do for sure. For sure and keep fighting. So they gave me wonderful. So, I mean, yeah, and that's a nice, big ego boost. But for. The point of this is, is that, that's. What I mean is even when you don't. Even when you think what you're writing is just entertainment, it still has the power to move people and change them because it's humans talking to humans about being human. [00:21:32] Speaker A: And you couldn't have that connection if you just let an AI chat box create that for you. [00:21:36] Speaker B: No, no, not at all. I will come up with a good approximation, but never. It is not designed to do this, and we're asking it to do it. It's, It's. It's mimicry. Right. Let alone. I mean, there's the moral aspect that AI in writing has stolen all of our off, you know, all of our published novels. So it's stolen work and I never got paid for it. And they trained it on that and, And Facebook is stealing everybody, the published works. But all of your posts, everything you've ever written is going into Facebook to help train their. Their models. And, and they're all. I mean that. The Pandora's box is open, the genie's out of the bottle. We can't. None of us are ever going to get that. That back. [00:22:18] Speaker C: Right. [00:22:19] Speaker B: But here's the thing to understand about AI and why. It's why if you do it, you're just. I don't even know why you would want it. I don't understand. If you want to create something, create it. If you don't, then why? Why. [00:22:32] Speaker A: So can it be. Can it be used as an editing tool then? If you said, okay, I would like to clarify this sentence, so. [00:22:39] Speaker B: Absolutely. AI is a great tool. For example, one of the ways we've been using AI forever is spell check. That's AI folks, basic one, but it's an AI. Same with grammar check. Sure, absolutely. That's a tool. It's not doing the creative, artistic, expressive part for you. It's helping do that. [00:23:02] Speaker C: Right, right. [00:23:03] Speaker B: You know, and that's different than what we're taught, what people are using it for. And the problem using it is that this was an experiment done early on. And I've always thought this was a really good. Or. I don't know if it was an actual experiment done, but it was a explanation That I. That puts into clarity why AI will never actually be good at art. If you take an AI like a chat, gbt, cut it off. Cut it off from all learning and just fed it Shakespeare. So that's the only thing it knows of Shakespeare. And then you say, write me a sonnet about whatever, you know, in the style of Shakespeare. It will do that, and it will give you a sonnet, and the sonnet will be okay. [00:23:49] Speaker C: Right, right. [00:23:50] Speaker B: Because what it does is it creates an average. A median. And so it will only ever be able to create an average Shakespearean song. It could never, ever, ever create something great or something really terrible. Because if it does that medium, it. [00:24:08] Speaker A: Goes to the medium, right? [00:24:09] Speaker B: Because if it accidentally creates something great, it will cut that out and say, that doesn't fit the medium. That's. That's an outlier. And outliers are what we crave. There's all kinds of mediocre crap on. On streaming services or in the movie theaters. And we go and we're like, yeah, that was okay, but it doesn't really anything for us because it really wasn't that good. [00:24:30] Speaker A: It's almost like cooking, right? So, like, you know, your. [00:24:32] Speaker B: Your. [00:24:33] Speaker A: Your mother, grandmother, wife would know exactly the right spices on, you know, to the. To the tea. You know, even though the cookbook may say a certain, you know, is exactly what you need to do. It's like, well, yeah, you can cookbook it, but I like it a little bit more like this. You got to add the hot sauce. You got to add, you know, herbs and spice and things like that. And that's where a real human interaction experience comes in, those personal touch feelings that come in when, like, that way, you know, it tasted good or, you know, that it hits your taste bud. [00:25:00] Speaker B: Human beings, as far as audiences of things, we are terrible at knowing what we're gonna like. We. We. We're great once it happens. We're like, oh, I like that. But we would never pick that. There's so many examples in, you know, in film, like, what the. The Barbie movie, you know, other than. And even people who love Barbie would be like, how are you gonna make that into a movie? [00:25:24] Speaker A: It was very funny because I thought the same thing. It was very funny because I was like, yeah, yeah. [00:25:28] Speaker B: And I mean, that's just off the top of my head of something more recent. But it goes back, you know, you can go back. What is. What is often considered one of the greatest, if not the greatest movie ever made was Citizen Kane. And when that thing was. It was Breaking all the rules of how you make a movie. Well, same with Star Wars. Even Lucas was like, this is I, I ruined my career. [00:25:52] Speaker A: It's after American Graffiti, right? So. [00:25:54] Speaker B: Yeah. So nobody know. No, but nobody in including the artist often knows whether what they've created or the artwork, how it's going to connect. And an AI can never do that. It can never take that chance. It will reject that, that creation and say that's not what I'm being asked to make. And it'll make something lesser than that. Got it. One of many reasons I hate AI as far as creating art. [00:26:21] Speaker C: Right. [00:26:21] Speaker B: I love, I think AI is going to be a fantastic tool or whether it's like I use it like, like you said, like we were talking about for you know, spell check and grammar and things like that. [00:26:34] Speaker A: Processes sentence continuity, things like that. [00:26:36] Speaker B: Other parts of, of life. You know, a self driving car has got to be using some forms of AI there's all kinds of things like that that once we get those things better and better perfected, they will, they will be really useful whether we like it or not. AI will eventually be able to write or create a video or music in such a way that it's. It's impossible to tell the difference. It's getting. I mean there are times when it is hard to tell the difference. Now questionably, without doubt, I ultimately, because obviously I've been on this conversation about. [00:27:10] Speaker A: AI Yeah, that's why I asked. You know, I didn't. I've never had your perspective. [00:27:15] Speaker B: You know, that's, that's fine. No, I don't mean that. I just mean it's, it's helps. That's why it's not like I'm just ripping off the top of my head. I've had this debate with people and in my opinion when, when AI gets to the point that, let's say it replaces me as a writer, like nobody and there you just don't need a person anymore. They're still. You're only getting the average. But for whatever reason people are like fine with that. That's all I need for my reading, entertainment. Then writing will break. Well, art will just break off into doing something else. [00:27:49] Speaker A: Of course it will. Of course it will. [00:27:51] Speaker B: You're not going to stop what art is. Remember that definition I said people writing for people, about people or creating art for people. So I always, I use the, the idea of chainsaw sculptures. You know, somebody takes chainsaw and makes some sculpture out of wood. Lies. [00:28:07] Speaker C: Right, right. [00:28:08] Speaker B: That is something a computer can't do. [00:28:10] Speaker C: Right. Right. [00:28:12] Speaker B: That's. We're paying to watch a human being do that, right? [00:28:16] Speaker A: That is very true. [00:28:16] Speaker C: Right? [00:28:17] Speaker A: It's very true. That is very true. [00:28:19] Speaker B: I become the greatest art form in the world because that's something unique to a human being. Same with like stand up comedy, right. I, you know, I, I can't imagine the authentic experience. Yeah, I can't imagine paying. And I'm sure you could get a, a robot to stand up there and tell jokes, but not going to be interesting. So there's going to be art forms that AI displaces me or, or illustrators or musicians in some way, the personal touches. But we will, the ones who want to continue like making music, it'll be live performances that. And I think just human beings will go find some other thing. If we can express ourselves to each other through writing, we'll find something else to do it. And you know, whether that's chainsaw sculptures or something I've never even thought of. [00:29:10] Speaker C: Right. [00:29:11] Speaker A: We'll have. Well, it's funny you mentioned John Wick before, right? Because the reason why John Wick was so successful because people got tired of special effects fight scenes. They got tired of green screens, they got tired of, you know, the actor who couldn't really perform the stunt or you could clearly see that it wasn't them or the quick cuts and things like that. And then you saw this movie and you, I mean anybody who's seen the old Hong Kong and Japanese movies, this is not new, right? So John Wick didn't create this. But as far as American mainstream films, this was the first time in a long time where you're like, hey, wait a minute. This. The actor knows the scene. The actor can fight. The director is a former stunt coordinator and stunt double and martial artist. And all the people on screen are actually performing actual martial arts. And there's, I mean, it's authentic. And you're like, it mattered. To a fan who watched action films and watch fight choreography, that mattered. We've all seen Van Damme, we've all seen Scott Atkins, we've all seen Wesley Snipes. But this was like, this is the mainstream movie of the guy who did the Matrix that's fighting in his kitchen with knives and guns. And you're like, there's no computer that can substitute that experience. Nothing. [00:30:17] Speaker B: And they, yeah, and, and like you said, they took one of the big things. They took from the old school Hong Kong films is not just once you have somebody who can do these things, you then show them happening. You don't cut the, the punches, the flips, the shoot, the gunshots, all of that was, you know, you got to experience authentic. [00:30:37] Speaker A: Authentic. And then he actually reloads, right? [00:30:39] Speaker B: He's the. Absolutely. [00:30:42] Speaker A: The small things like he's reloading. [00:30:43] Speaker B: Right. [00:30:43] Speaker A: And you're like, okay, this, this. And then you're like, where's more of this coming from? So, you know, obviously you've written a lot of novels, you're very successful in your field. I gotta ask this, is this a TV show? Has anything been made into shows, movies, TV movies? [00:30:57] Speaker B: Not yet. This thing, Max Porter going back, I think it was 2017, 2018. I ended up, I signed a contract with a pub, with a producer and he spent two years giving me money so he could go try and make it into a, you know, a TV show or a movie. Yeah, getting anything made, actually made is really, really, really hard. [00:31:22] Speaker A: I can only imagine. I can only imagine. [00:31:25] Speaker B: I know plan. I know some authors, some bigger name authors that have made a killing on year letting their things get optioned and they've never been made. And in fact, one said to me once, said to me, I kind of don't want it ever to get made money and if it gets made, I'm only going to get a payout if it does well. [00:31:47] Speaker C: Right. [00:31:48] Speaker A: Like the writer of Forrest Gump. [00:31:49] Speaker C: Right. [00:31:50] Speaker A: Who got totally. Who didn't make it, you know, die. Yeah. [00:31:52] Speaker B: Sometimes you get screwed out of it too. So this was just a, this wasn't a huge amount, but I got paid, you know, several grand a year for a couple of years while they try. But it was a fascinating window into just how hard it is to make. And because there were a lot of recognizable, recognizable names that got at one time or another attached to the project. And we pitched, you know, we got interest from this studio or that studio and then it would go through a process and then it would not happen. And then, you know, and eventually they're like, well, we tried for two years, but we got to move on to some other project and find stuff work. [00:32:28] Speaker A: I don't doubt. I just. That's awesome though. [00:32:31] Speaker B: So these things do happen and hopefully someday I'd love to see some of this made. But at the moment there's nothing. [00:32:37] Speaker A: Well, I guess if there's a plus sign to that, you know, is that because there's so many streaming services out there and availability that has grown exponentially, you know, maybe those opportunities open up because, I mean, there's dozens of them right there and they're always looking for content now, you know what I mean, and you and you have a very good fan base. So I'm pumped that you reached out to me. I could talk, you know, sci fi mysteries and martial arts and go down the wormhole forever. But I value your time so much. I'd love to have a follow up with you. And I look forward to also getting a copy of the book as well too. And book of some of the series of the books as well too. Where could people find Stuart Jaffe? [00:33:12] Speaker B: This will shock you, but stuartjaffe.com everything links to everything. My stuff is available on Amazon and Apple everywhere, right. It's in ebook, print, hardcore paperback, hardcover, and almost. I'd say 99 of my stuff is on audiobook as well eventually. So however you like to read a story, I'm trying to get it to you and yeah, yeah, and for you particularly. I know, I know we've been talking Max Porter, because that's my best on stuff, but you would love my Nathan K series because my pitch for that, usually when I'm hand selling is it's John Wick with immortality. [00:33:52] Speaker A: Oh my gosh, yes, I'm gonna Nathan K, K A Y, just the letter K. That's all right. That's all you had to tell me? That's all you have to tell me because I mean, I'm, you know, it's funny because the director of John Wick's doing Highlander, right? So you're like, this is, you know, how could you beat that? You have my attention. I'm gonna make a note to myself about Nathan K. Make sure I look that right up because again, as soon as you said science fiction, science fiction, martial arts mysteries, it's like, yeah, me and him are gonna have a very great conversation. And you know, I really appreciate your time for that. And like I said, I hope you. Hope you continue success and I'm very honored that you carved out some time for my podcast. [00:34:25] Speaker B: Oh, well, thank you very much for having me. [00:34:27] Speaker A: Appreciate you. You have a wonderful day. [00:34:28] Speaker B: You too. [00:34:29] Speaker A: That was a lot of fun, Mr. Stuart Jaffe.