Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: Welcome back, listeners, to the Randomness of Nothing podcast with George Truly, Rashad Woods. Today. I have a very special guest today, and this is important for business owners who need to cultivate a very welcoming and warm culture to their teams, prospective employees, current employees, as well as vendors and relationships. And nobody epitomizes this more than my guest today, guest speaker, culture advocate, and all around good person, Lisa even. Thank you.
[00:00:22] Speaker B: Yeah, thanks for having me.
[00:00:23] Speaker A: Yeah. You're the CEO of Lisa Even International. And so you started off with very humble means and managed to grow a very successful company advising Fortune 500 companies. So please tell me about your background and what you do now.
[00:00:35] Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely. My background is in healthcare operations. So I worked in a very large health system, hospitals and clinics. And I was a project manager first, which I think is kind of interesting to know because I feel like I've kind of pivoted across my career. And I think a lot of your listeners are probably thinking about either they've done it and they're like, whoa. Or they're maybe, like, dreaming too, right? A little bit of like, I'm here, but I want to get there. So I, I started in project management. I had a senior leader say, I think you're a people leader. She saw what I was doing with my project teams, and I really liked to get people kind of rowing in the same direction. And so I moved over into people leadership, and I loved it. I loved kind of those cranky employees that are like, I'm not doing it, you know, or we've done this like this for 20 years, and it was just always fun for me to try on their glasses.
[00:01:26] Speaker A: Didn't you give an example of a gentleman named Paul, if I'm not mistaken?
[00:01:28] Speaker B: Yes, he was one of my favorites. Just crankier than ever. Like, but, you know, a lot of it was just giving him permission to kind of be like, paul, I know you hate the potlucks. They're not for you, right? Like, buddy, you've been around forever. These are for the people who have a lot of years left in the workforce. And it's sometimes just being able to, like, see it from their angle helps kind of pivot people in a. Into a different way of thinking of, like, okay, well, if they're not for me, I don't. I don't need to worry about it.
[00:01:59] Speaker A: Yeah, Yeah. I think it's funny, right? Because, you know, you have. Your quote is positive disturbance, which I thought was very, you know, eloquently put, because when any time you, you know, you. You equate something that could be chaotic, but you put a positive spin on it, right? Yeah, it's almost like.
Like sports. Right. All these things are going on right now, but it's almost like being the calm quarterback. Right? Like, yeah.
And Right. And so these punches and kicks are flying at you and the person that's calm throughout this entire storm, like, how do they maintain this demeanor when everything around them looks from the outside looking in and they're like, I'm cool, I'm straight. Where did that positive disturbance come from?
[00:02:39] Speaker B: You know, I think a lot of it was I started leading a team. A lot of times you'll get. You'll be given a little team. And I was given a big team. I had about 100 people. It was my first leadership role. And I had not put supervisors into place below me. So I had. If you think about like 100 people needing you all at once, that was what I was experiencing. And after a couple of weeks of it, I realized that I was like, okay, I need to a call timeout. Like, I need to start thinking about this a little bit more strategically instead of trying to fight, like every fire that came through my door. So it probably came from like a little bit of survival. And then once I like, started to call a few timeouts of like, hey, hold on, let me. Can I learn about this before I react? I started to realize that that was a better way to handle kind of the chaotic situations. Much like a, you know, a coach would call a timeout on the field. I was kind of doing that and I just told my team, I'm like, okay, timeout. Like, can I learn a little? And then we'll come up with a plan and we'll figure out, can we do it now, can we do it later? It was really a strategy that kind of was built over time, really out of survival.
[00:03:41] Speaker A: What do companies. So obviously I want to dive deep into your work, but you started off, I think, at the very beginning working in the caf, serving truck drivers and things like that, you know, and you really learn hands on. Right. You're not just that person that was behind the desk. You lived and breathed. You know, what it was like at the front line of customer service, of a dissatisfied, you know, experience smile on somebody's face. Because it's a lost art. Right. You know, because we're so disconnected with AI computers. But you really started from that and eventually became keynote speaker. And now these companies seek out how to build teams, reduce turnover, and really engage employees on a very high level.
[00:04:20] Speaker B: Yeah. You know, so I. The cafe that I worked at, a lot of them, you know, when I think about age gap, you know, I was 14 when I started washing dishes. You know, When I turned 15, I got promoted to waitress. And I remember, you know, some of these folks were, you know, 30, 40, and in some cases like 50 years older than me. And I learned really quick, quickly that like 40 year old, for 40 people, 40 years older than me are going to just tell it like it is.
And it was like after about the third one, you know, my coffee's out. It was kind of like I need a way to respond that kind of like helps me get through this interaction. And I think the lost art that you're talking about, at least for me, was humor, you know, and it was kind of like, I need to dish this right back of like, I'll get you coffee when I'm ready. And you know, they kind of look at you and it kind of snaps them out of that interaction. And I think that a lot of times when you're on the front line and you've got somebody who's really passionate or really angry or insert some crazy, wild emotion, for me, it's almost like, how do I just snap them out of this, like adrenaline rush that they're feeling? Sometimes it's a curiosity question, sometimes it's humor in the right moment, you know, and sometimes it's just like validating their thought of like, I hear that. And oftentimes people are like, wait, what you, you hear that? I'm like, yeah. And it's like they've almost like, like I said, snapped out of what they're feeling and then they can start to think a little bit more clearly. So I think that was the gift that that job gave me. 15 year old Lisa.
[00:05:47] Speaker A: Beautiful. So you're, you know, you're a leadership coach. And so when, when do companies or businesses of various sizes and structures reach out to you? Do they feel that there's turnover? Do they feel that there's less engagement? Is it dip in sales or is it kind of all of the above?
[00:06:02] Speaker B: I'd say there's probably two main. I almost like think of it like a teeter totter, like two main sides. One of them is when they want to celebrate. So my tagline is have good ripple effect. Everything you say and do right is a ripple, happier, crappier choice. So sometimes they just want to celebrate and they want a little jet fuel to kind of say, like, look what we're doing for our patients, or look what we're doing for Our clients, like whatever industry. So that's one. The other one I hear a lot of is like burnout. We've got maybe a little bit of morale, we've got turnover, we've got folks that aren't collaborating well. They, they almost can identify the symptom of like, bad ripple effect.
And then they kind of say, like, we don't quite know, you know, where to go with this. And so I become that conversation starter, especially in a keynote setting where we talk about, like, how I have an acronym called C S E A Show up, engage and adapt. And so I talk about, like, how are you showing up? Are we cranky? Are we not? You know, and I kind of get the conversation going and then a lot of times they'll bring me back for breakout sessions or training for their teams. But it's, it usually starts with a little bit of that symptom of like, we're not doing what we could.
[00:07:13] Speaker A: Yeah. And, you know, I thought it was funny. I'm looking for the phrase you turn, you, you, you brought up, but it was basically like where people have already made up their mind that this meeting or this, this, this engagement thing is going to be a bad experience and they've already sulking before, you know, they're cranky and then you get something to engage the crankiness and they've already cranky before. Like, it's like, like, you know, like, how does. I forgot the terminology used. I tried, but I thought that was funny that you brought that up because then you have to sit back and say, you know, you got Paul. It's like, yeah, now I'm going to this engagement, you know, to try to get me uplifted, so to speak. So how does that, how do you engage those people that have already made up their mind that this is.
[00:07:53] Speaker B: Yeah. So the term I use is called pre annoyed. So they're already annoyed about everything that's going to go on. And, you know, I'm guilty too. Sometimes you walk in and you're like, oh, we've been to, I've been to 100 of these. I know how it's going to go. But I always say, like, there's like a little bit of a loop that you can kind of get yourself in where you're annoyed and then you're annoyed and then you're annoyed and it just kind of keeps almost spiraling. And for those people, you know, it's a kind of a combination. If I'm working with a group of people, those are like one on one conversations that I Might have off to the side of just like, hey, I was hoping to talk about, you know, the meeting before we go into the meeting. And I wanted to get a little bit of your perspective. And it's again, it's kind of snapping them out of this. Like, oh, wait, what? It's like, yeah, I want to. I want to try on your glasses, and I want to see what you see. I'm not. There's no promise that I can fix it. But before we walk into this room and we're already annoyed about what we're annoyed about, and I kind of throw that in there, right? And then they're kind of looking at me like, are you calling me annoyed? You know what I'm like, they don't usually say it, but I can see it. And I'm like, so I'd love to take a little perspective and get some ideas from you before we walk in, because nothing worse than walking into a meeting being like, I don't want to be here. And usually about two or three of those, like, I kind of almost, like, chip away of like, I love your insight. I love your thoughts. And then all of a sudden, they're like, maybe I shouldn't be pre annoyed. It takes time, but it's like, almost like wearing them down with a little bit of, like, good. If that makes sense.
[00:09:19] Speaker A: Well, the problem is, is that I say this respectfully. They've probably had so many people who have tried to, you know, engage them in over the years, and they're like, if people can be stuck in their way, so to speak.
[00:09:29] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:09:30] Speaker A: You know, and bringing that out of them, you know, and finding joy and, you know, what could be something very mundane for them has to be a challenge, you know, and because. And it's funny to me, like. And I said this to previous guests. People who are the eternal optimists, such as yourself, tend to, like, grade on people that, like, sulking is, like, the thing that people like to do, right?
[00:09:48] Speaker B: Like, it makes them feel good.
[00:09:52] Speaker A: But, like, when they see somebody smiling and upbeat all the time, that's, like, why they annoy people, right?
[00:09:56] Speaker B: Like, it's weird, right?
[00:09:58] Speaker A: What are you talking about? Like, it's great. Life is good. You know, it's always good to have another day. You know, you're thankful the sun rises, and then you got, you know, like, you know, you have, you know, the Willie Lomans of the world, you know, Death of a Salesman that are just like, yeah, down, and stuff like that. So I found your engagement, you know, and what you do very Positive. And I love how you say joy is my job. I thought that was wonderful. So you host these events, you get engagement. What are the results that companies and businesses and individuals see from you?
[00:10:27] Speaker B: Yeah, you know, I think that they, I, it's fun. I love that you call me an optimist, but I always say like, I'm a realistic optimist and what I mean by that. And I once had a Blasco, you like masquerade, really upbeat, but you're not. And I was like, I'm kind of not because I just assume it's all going to fall apart. And it does, right? And then we're going to figure it out. And I think that figure it out nature really does present well as a leader, like, hey, how do we figure this out? What do we got to do? And a lot of times after I've spoken to an audience, the things that I hear is number one, I have really good energy. I tend to drink. I've got, I've always got too much coffee. Right. And, and I'm always telling stories and stories that folks can relate to. They're like, ah, I have a Paul on my team or like, ah, I have a Shane on my team. Right. Like I'm really trying to land the story inside of their story, if that makes sense. Just because I want them to be able to look around and think, okay, I've got that going on. And then a lot of what I, what I give them are strategies and a little bit of the science to be able to go back and actually affect it. Things that they can take away, that folks download resources. It's almost like a workbook of sorts that they can go back. And whether it's the PB&J worksheet that I use in my one on ones or you know, the values exercise that really gets you into like, what does this person care about? Like, and a lot of times I always say, like, we're wearing what we care about on our forehead. We just, that we say it when we're mad, we say it when we're happy. And so I think folks walk away with things they can go and do.
Because I was an operational leader and I've been to a ton of keynotes where I was like, okay, well I feel excited, but I don't have anything I can go and do. And so that's really, I think what folks walk away with or they're, they're going to type of things.
[00:12:13] Speaker A: Right. Do you feel as though, like, I know, like, you know, obviously your, your work is so important. But how do you, how do you transition that to action and culture change with inside of organizations? Because that's, that's, how does that get measured? And I asked it, because do they see, is there some sort of action internally that you see mechanism wise? You know, is it, is it less, is it better retention, is it better employee engagement, Is it better financial goals that the company?
[00:12:38] Speaker B: So yeah, I would say, well, to your first point about how do they, how do they do it right? Like how do we actually measure it? In my keynote, I actually have folks analyze their culture. So I give them an actual way to look at the attitudes, the behaviors and the beliefs. And I always think, you know, when you want to lose weight, you do diet and exercise and that those are called like your process, you know, measures. And then you have your outcome measure which is like actually losing the weight. Well, I do the same thing in team culture. Like I want to see my engagement survey results. I want to see, you know, whatever it is that I want to see moving. I back the truck up and I say, well, what is diet and exercise? And so they get to actually think about attitudes, behaviors and belief beliefs. And so they get to start tinkering with some of those day to day things that are happening. If we've got complaining going on, we're going to, number one, identify it, we're going to start measuring it. And then the other thing that I talk to teams about, especially in more of a workshop setting, is how to actually go and change behavior. Like, I know that we've got complaining, but how do I address it? And much like a coach would run a play on the field, we talk about what is the play that you're going to run when that happens. And I give them some actual, like, what are your team statements, all the tools that go with it.
[00:13:55] Speaker A: Well, I think it's funny, right? So like the offensive lineman should never complain about getting the ball passed to him. Right. For obvious reasons. Right? So like you, yes, it's not, that's not the position that you play.
And then we obviously know that certain positions are obviously more, you know, likely to complain that quote unquote, diva wide receiver numbers and makes all pro Bowls, right. So, you know, everybody can't, quote, unquote, be made happy. I do find it fascinating though that one of the things that I think is kind of universal is you should never accept in winning what you would accept in losing. So, you know, oftentimes a culture can be overlooked because of success. And that's irrespective of organization. That could be a personal thing too.
[00:14:36] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:14:36] Speaker A: So how do you make sure that you even companies that are doing well are still identifying flaws at the time?
[00:14:41] Speaker B: Same. Same time, yeah. It goes back to. And I, like I said, I have like kind of a worksheet that I have them start to assess, like, what is the attitudes, what are the behaviors and what are the beliefs. And a lot of times when you get into really high performing organizations, the nuance of it, like a behavior is someone feeling like they're more important than someone else. And it's like, do we have some of that? And then how do we address that? I, you know, believe it or not, I had not watched Ted Lasso and just started watching it. And I think about, you know, how you need to. So many people have told me that they're like, you kind of remind me of Ted. I'm like, is that a good thing? I don't know. And, you know, one of the things that he starts to do is like, address the players that think they're really, really like almost a sense of inflated ego. And I think about, you know, what happens when you do well, and I think about the nuance of like, you know, do we maybe have a little ego inflation? Do people have more of a hierarchy? And those behaviors are going to be a little bit smaller and softer than maybe if you're having a ton of chaos. But the measurement mechanism is the same. It's like identify and address, and then identify and address over and over and over again. And when something pops up that you don't like, your team's going to get used to you being like, hey, guys. So we're talking about culture today. And they, you know, they kind of almost roll their eyes of like, I know, but it's does hold people accountable if you're having those conversations.
[00:16:09] Speaker A: That's wonderful. And, you know, then it becomes instilled that that's the way that things operate around here, so to speak.
[00:16:14] Speaker B: Yes, absolutely.
[00:16:15] Speaker A: So do you're. I, I thought it was fascinating when I was watching your podcast and it said that, you know, you, you're a structured person, but then you took kind of a random trip to, like, Sweden and you kind of said, you know what, I'm gonna just kind of throw caution to the wind, so to speak. So can you expand upon that? Because I found that very fascinating for someone who's typically very structured.
[00:16:36] Speaker B: Yeah, I always say I'm a dreamer and a doer, so I love a little bit of structure and process. But then I also really enjoy Almost a little, like, surprise and delight. And so my husband and I do this thing as a side note. So I normally talk to teams about culture, but the other topic that I talk a lot about is joy. You can imagine working hard. My husband and I were climbing the ladder. I looked at him one night, and I said, I am so exhausted, like, really feeling. Feeling like the burnout of just too many things on the schedule. And so what we ended up doing was I said, I want to make Joy my job, and I want to measure it like a bank account. So we actually measure our joy. It started in our family. We hung a whiteboard in our bedroom, put that on the wall. And one of the things. So we had a joy list of, like, things we could do, want to do, used to do. Because our thought was if we wait, if we keep pushing Joy off, like after this project, after our kids sleep through the night, after, after, after Joy was going to miss us, and we were going to get to the end of our lives and look back and be like, we forgot. We forgot to have joy back there. And so one of the things on that joy list was, I want to go on a trip, but I don't want to plan it like I plan so many other things. And so we lined up babysitters for our kids. And about two weeks before our trip, we looked wherever we could go that was cheap. We booked lodging for a couple nights and the hotel flight, and away we went. And it's been the most amazing thing. Maybe if you are real structured, that would not feel amazing to you, but it was good.
[00:18:07] Speaker A: That's beautiful. It was wonderful. And I thought that that was very. That was very effective because it shows that even somebody is structured. Yourself needs some spontaneity. Spontaneity to make a random decision and just kind of throw caution to the wind, so to speak. I thought that was very important, you know, highlight your personal experience as well.
[00:18:23] Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely.
[00:18:24] Speaker A: So, you know, when you're. When you're coming in to help some of these companies, you have all their. All their metrics and their data and their employee engagement. You know, is there a stage that they try to get you at? It's like, hey, we're trying to test out something to a new market, so to speak. We're trying to launch a new product. You know, we're trying to beat out our competitors, so to speak. Maybe our talents even being poached, so to speak. Yeah, all those things can factor in, you know, in. In various different methods. Is there a customization you have Specifically when you're speaking to a specific group or industry.
[00:18:52] Speaker B: I do talk during our pre call. We talk a lot about what they're experiencing and what they're seeing. And then depending on if it's a keynote or a workshop, we go into some of those examples. I will give, like, stories and examples about that and talking about, like, what does the outcome look like? And sometimes audiences are like, in a way, they're like, how did you know? And I'm like, well, your senior leadership and I really did work together to customize this experience for you so that you can start to see it from your lens. Like, what does this look like in my day to day? And it really is helpful when organizations can kind of share what they're going through so that when I share it back, teams are like, yep, that's exactly what we got going on. Okay, how do we do it? And it really is a powerful tool, almost like paraphrasing in a way.
[00:19:38] Speaker A: That's beautiful. That's beautiful. So you're also working on a book or has it come out yet? I saw your website, but I saw a book, but I wasn't sure if it's been released yet. Can you talk about that?
[00:19:47] Speaker B: Absolutely. So I have one book that's called Joy Is My Job that has been out for a bit. And then in the spring, and we're just narrowing down the date, I will have another book. And that one is going to be have good ripple effect. And that's all about how do you do that as a leader? So in the context of leadership, what does it look like to have good ripple effect and how you show up, how you engage and how you adapt. Eventually, I'd love to have other versions of that too. We were, you know, we were just talking about our kids before we jumped on. And I think even, you know, like, you know, our middle school and high school kids, it's like, how do you have good ripple effect in that space? Maybe you're not all grown up yet, but how do you do that? So I'm just getting started.
[00:20:28] Speaker A: You know, what's interesting is that, you know, it really does feed off to, you know, your, your children, your, your attitude and how you carry yourself and how you compose yourself. Because unfortunately, life is not, you know, quote unquote, a box of chocolate. Right? So it's okay for your kids to see you upset because you should know that they, they, they, they should know that you have certain guardrails of what you can and can't do when behavior towards you or them but at the same time, if they see you stalking all the time, see you upset all the time, if you're. And you know, you're complaining to the waitress, you're complaining about the movie, you're complaining about the commute, you're complaining in the car, it's like, geez, op. It's like, who is this guy? Why is he complaining all the time? And then it rubs off on them and then you start hearing them complain, like, where did they get that from? It sounds cliche, but it really happens, right?
[00:21:13] Speaker B: You know, it really does. And I think, you know, even when we think about our kids, they're watching and I always say, like, we're the permission givers to. To them. Permission to be good, you know, and.
[00:21:22] Speaker A: Permission to not sure for sure, you know. You know, but I find that very fascinating because you, you start thinking twice, you know, when it comes to, you know, somebody cuts you off, you think twice about cussing them out of that, you know.
[00:21:37] Speaker B: Absolutely.
[00:21:39] Speaker A: What, where did this positivity come from? Like, is it. Is it something that, you know, because it's a hard trait to have.
[00:21:47] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:21:47] Speaker A: To stay positive because, you know, it's so easy to.
To turn, to be in the opposite direction. So what. What was in your DNA that allowed you to always have this optimistic outlook and realistic optimism?
[00:21:59] Speaker B: Yeah, I would say, you know, my grandpa was always had a ton of energy, so I think I always watched him and was like, oh, you. It's okay to have a lot of energy. So that, that would be one thing. I don't think I had positivity necessarily. I had a. Quite a few people either pass away or get really, really sick when I was in middle school and high school.
And they were illnesses. Like, my grandparents went through a couple illnesses that essentially, like, took years for them to essentially, like, pass away. And so I watched a lot of my extended family and my parents care for them. And I remember between that and, you know, remember I was over waitressing on the weekends and seeing like a combination of like, there were, you know, older people who were cranky, kind of like cranky jerks. And then there were older people that weren't right. They were really upbeat. They come in every morning, they were getting coffee. They're like, how are you today?
And I think that it was almost like this crossroads of like, life kind of sucks and you have a choice. And I think that those hard things, I kind of stood at that crossroads and said, well, we only get one life. What are we going to do do with it? And I Think that that was really, like, where I decided to start. Choosing isn't always easy, but I always just say, like, life could be worse because I. Because I saw it, like, I saw it being worse, and I was like, well, life could be like that. So, yeah, it's always.
[00:23:23] Speaker A: It's always crazy. You know, if you go to a funeral or if you go to visit, you know, somebody who's sick, you know, you get that appreciation. And then a week and a half later, you go right back to your old habits. Right. I know, like, you saw, like, upfront and close with your own two eyes that it ain't that bad, and yet you still reverted back to the same behavior that you know is destructive or not helpful to ultimately get to the place where you need to be. Are there any questions about Lisa, even international, and the services that you provide that we have not discussed on this, on this podcast? Because I feel like, you know, we've kind of had a conversation. But yeah, you know, bullet point of your company, what you do.
[00:23:59] Speaker B: Yeah, I think actually you're a great host and ask, like, such good questions. I would just say that if organizations are looking for a keynote speaker or someone to come at to, you know, to their retreat or just get the conversation started with their team around, how do we continue to either celebrate and expand our ripple effect, or maybe you've got some things that you're noticing when it comes to engagement and collaboration, performance.
You know, I'd love to come and be that person that gets that conversation started in kind of this realistic but optimistic sort of way. It's like, life is hard.
Acknowledge that. But what do we do? There's still a choice in there. So, yeah, if folks are thinking about that, I would love, love, love to have a conversation.
[00:24:44] Speaker A: I do have to ask this, because if I can't leave this. How do people project this level of optimism in the era of artificial intelligence and growing technologies and displacement?
[00:24:53] Speaker B: Yeah, that's a great question. I think, you know, when I watch it with my kids, I'm like, you're so much better with, like, texting than you are with real conversation. And I think it's a combination of human connection. We will always need it. It's always a skill that you're going to need to build. But I also do nod to the fact that when you've got team members that are younger, I do a lot of generations work and we talk about, like, what is their. Like, where are they skilled? If they are skilled with technology, like, use it. You know, maybe they do a better job of giving you insight and input electronically than they would in person. And so I often say, like, AI and technology is a tool, but you still have to have the connection piece if you want to work in a group.
[00:25:40] Speaker A: No, without question, unfortunately. You know, it's. I've always found it funny, right, where we have, you know, mobile apps and applications that have allowed us to do things quicker, but the behind the scenes process hasn't necessarily sped itself up. It's like ordering a pizza, right? All of a sudden you get the email that your order's been made. Now you're calling the pizza place five minutes after has been made, like, dude, like it still has to go on this queue.
Nothing sped up making the pizza, they just got the order quicker. Right?
[00:26:04] Speaker B: Yeah, exactly. I love that. That's a great example.
[00:26:07] Speaker A: It's, you know, I always find that funny because I'm guilty of it. Right. You know, we have the immediate satisfaction of a transaction, but we don't have the actual product or service.
[00:26:15] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:26:17] Speaker A: So, you know, we're, we're kind of all beholden to that mentality now in this technological era. And anybody who's grown up, you know, just in the last 15 years has really seen acceleration of this and it's.
[00:26:27] Speaker B: Not, not slowing down.
[00:26:31] Speaker A: I would like to personally thank you for your time on this episode. And that's why I created this show, was to cultivate an experience for people such as yourself, to give an opportunity to manifest my own curiosity and find out what people do for a living. And I'm honored that you took time out of your schedule.
[00:26:47] Speaker B: Thank you for having me.
[00:26:48] Speaker A: Yeah, it's been an absolute pleasure. You have a great holiday season too. Okay.
[00:26:52] Speaker B: You too.
