Jason Hassler

[00:00:01] Speaker A: Welcome back, everybody. This is Rashad woods, host of the Tron podcast, the Randomness of Nothing. And I gotta be honest, I'm here with a really special guest today, All Things Paranoia. Right out of Portland, Oregon, we have Mr. Jason Hassler. Welcome and thank you for coming to the show. [00:00:16] Speaker B: Thanks for having me. [00:00:18] Speaker A: So I got a chance to look at your background. We chatted briefly. How exactly did you get started in the field of paranoia? You mentioned some things about your childhood. Care to expand on that a little bit. [00:00:28] Speaker B: Okay. So when I was a kid, I grew up in a haunted house. So I just kind of. It always left me with more questions than answers. So, you know, everybody's talking about, like, you know, when it comes. I grew up, like, religious. Like, I'm not religious now, but when I was young, I was going to church and stuff, so haunted houses didn't make sense for, you know, going to church or when you go to heaven, when you die. Right. Or hell. So it didn't make any sense to me. I kind of lost my sense of religion at that point. But we'd have things like, there was an old man coughing in the bathroom almost every night, but of course, there wasn't an old man there. You know, that kind of stuff. Yeah, yeah, that kind of stuff. There was. Okay. There was. You know, all kids grow up and there's like, you know, a monster in the closet or whatever. But, you know, I would see things in my closet, which was weird because my bedroom was connected. Like, my closet was connected to my brother's closet. Like, when we grew up, like, we talked about, like, there was a guy that was in the closet that, like, literally, you know, we. You know, we both saw it. So, like, that's kind of weird. And then we had several different family members live in that household throughout the years in the house. Anyway, so my. My uncle had gone into that closet at one point, I think he was changing a light bulb in there, and the door got shut behind him and he couldn't get out for a little while. So. [00:01:45] Speaker A: So you trained. So you're having these instances as kids now. You always hear about how kids can see things but adults can't. Did you ever try to, like, say, hey, Mom, Dad, Grandma, Grandpa, this is really happening? And what was their reaction to you saying that? Did you just. They think you had an overactive imagination or was it a case of, like, we need to look into this further? [00:02:04] Speaker B: Well, they knew that the house was haunted, so. But of course, they're not going to tell the kids, like, hey, yeah, the house is haunted. Go ahead and go in there and brush your teeth and go to bed, you know, like, so they would just tell us, you know, you know, you're okay, it's your imagination, whatever, that kind of stuff. They didn't really tell us kids what was going on. But as an adult we pretty much. Yeah, we learned about it as we were getting older and stuff, especially once we moved out of the house. And they would tell us. [00:02:26] Speaker A: Well, I guess at the time they had to keep you calm on a day by day basis. Now, was it just the case of just one ghost? Right. So. So just to back up a little bit, what's the specific definition of paranormal? Because some people think ghosts, some people think a figure. What exactly. If I saw something, you saw something. What is the definition of a paranormal thing? [00:02:45] Speaker B: It just kind of depends on, on opinion really. So a lot of people think that orbs are paranormal. A lot of people think that, you know, like you can get. As far as vision goes, it's kind of, it's rare to see something, but it does happen. I mean, I imagine it happens to kids more because kids don't know they're not supposed to see stuff, so. [00:03:05] Speaker A: Right. [00:03:05] Speaker B: You know, as adults, we're conditioned that we don't see ghosts. But kids like my daughter, she, when she was young, she would see my great grandma, her great grandma, which was my grandmother. And yeah, she would know things about her that she just shouldn't know because she wasn't a lot. They weren't alive at the same time. [00:03:19] Speaker A: Yeah, she dive into specifics of what she saw in respect with no picture identification saying, great grandma looks like X, Y and Z. And you'd be like, how would you know that? [00:03:30] Speaker B: She'd say stuff like. Yeah, she would say stuff like, well, she, she thinks I would look pretty in dresses and stuff like that. Which is something my grandma would tell my mom when she was little. Yeah. And then there was a fire at one point and she was talking about the fire at her house and the old man across the street came over and you know, I'm like, whatever. Like, yeah, we're just like, yeah, yeah, yeah, that's, you know, cool, you know. [00:03:56] Speaker A: So the director in the Portland chapter of it looks to be Big River Paranormal. So I, I saw that it was started originally in the Boise area back in 2000, the early 2000s. And you've been with them since2017? [00:04:10] Speaker B: That's correct. Yeah. [00:04:11] Speaker A: You want to give us a little background about, you know, I see you guys have done a Number of search searches on various properties, whether it's penitentiaries, old historical places, and private residences. You kind of want to give a little background on what you do. [00:04:25] Speaker B: Yeah. So Big river paranormal has been around just over, I think, 20 years, and they've done over a thousand investigations. So whether that be residential or commercial. So what we do is we will receive requests from, say, you know, we'll get somebody hit us up on our Facebook or something to say, hey, I'm in your area, and I've got, you know, I think I got this, this, and this going on. You know, I think I have a ghost. So our job is to. What I'll do is also the case managers. I'll call that client, and I'll have a discussion with them to see exactly what they have going on. So. And then see, is this the right case for our team? Is it safe to go out there? That kind of stuff. Because sometimes it's a mental health issue. I mean, we're not doctors, so we can't diagnose, but sometimes it's pretty obvious. Sometimes it's a drug issue. Sometimes it's just a miseducation issue. So our job is to go out there and educate them and try to help them find a logical explanation for what they're experiencing. And most. Most of the time we can do that, but sometimes we find things that we can't explain. So. [00:05:27] Speaker A: Right, right. So I got a number of questions because this is really fascinating. What kind of equipment? Like, I. I know nothing about paranormal equipment. So when I was. When I saw that you guys went to these various places, and you've had the news. You guys do do charitable work as well, too. What equipment do you do to validate if there's something that somebody says is there and then you guys can validate? Yeah, this is. There's something more behind this of what people are. These people are seeing or hearing. [00:05:52] Speaker B: We like to keep things very basic. Usually it's a video recorder and a digital audio recorder is our main. It's our main source of equipment for, like, trying to document paranormal activity. [00:06:03] Speaker A: Okay. Okay. And so how successful has it been? You know, obviously, I saw that you guys are strict on people's privacy, which is great, too. But have you been able to validate or is there. Is. Is there any sort of validation process? Yo, there really is something here, you know? [00:06:19] Speaker B: You know, it's really tough to say that for sure there's something here. I mean, we could have all the experiences and stuff, but. But we haven't proven Anything. So I mean, everything that we believe in the paranormal research is a theory. At this point, nothing has actually been proven. So we can say, hey, these are the recordings that we got. This makes sense to us. But you know, what can we prove? We can't really say for sure. Yep, this is a ghost or yeah, this is paranormal. We have to say we believe it to be, but like we haven't proven anything. So. [00:06:46] Speaker A: Yeah, right. So, So I saw you guys are really popular. You guys get a number of people who volunteer for you with you guys, which is really awesome because in all things you need groups of like minded people to be successful in your endeavors. So how did people start reaching out to you? How did this thing kind of grow organically? [00:07:04] Speaker B: So it pretty much social media is how you do it now. I mean like 20 years ago, I don't know how they did it because I wasn't a part of the team and it was. Social media wasn't such a big thing 20 years ago as it is now. Like that's how we do everything. So, you know, I met, you know, we have a website in social media and we are part of the Taps family, which is the Atlantic Paranormal Society, which is originated from the TV show Ghost Hunters. [00:07:27] Speaker A: So that's awesome. [00:07:29] Speaker B: Yeah. So if they get a case in our, in Idaho, Washington or Oregon, they'll send it to us and then we get to take that case and see what we can do to help. [00:07:40] Speaker A: So for people who are skeptical or people who sit back, you know, there's a, there's a, I'll just be honest with you. Like, how do people, how do you convince the skeptics that, okay, well, you don't have to believe what I'm telling you, but this is, you know, what's hearing. I'm sure you've had people who swore up and down. I'm not the type person that ever call you guys that I've ever, you know, have this. But something I'm hearing or seeing something, or my kid is seeing something. So how did, how do you convince the skeptics that or how did they come to you? What kind of people do you see that are reaching out to you guys? [00:08:10] Speaker B: We get a little bit of everybody. The, I would say the majority of people that contact us watch too much paranormal tv. So that's, that's probably the majority of people that contact us. But we, we do have people that will contact us and be like, I think I'm crazy, I don't believe in this. But this is what I got going on can you come and validate this for me or can you come, please explain to me what I'm really seeing? And for sure we get some of those. And then, you know, we get people that will just reach out to us because they think we're dots. [00:08:36] Speaker A: Right. [00:08:37] Speaker B: Which is, which is fine. I mean, like, everybody's entitled to their opinion. And as we go into each investigation, we always try to go in skeptical as so, you know, so that's way to do it. [00:08:47] Speaker A: So these abandoned buildings, like, I mean, I'll be honest with you, you're braver than I am. I'm not going inside of no abandoned building. You know, like, I mean, I consider myself a pretty even kill kind of guy, but some of the places you went to, for me, it's like I'd rather see, you know, on TV or see a nice photograph than walking in there. What's your process to going into some of these places? Because obviously some of them can be pretty hazardous on the inside and pretty dangerous if they've been abandoned and. Or, you know, not exactly had living people in them, so to speak. [00:09:17] Speaker B: Yeah. So our process for that is we have to get permission from the owner of the place. So we never go in anywhere we don't have permission to go into. And so that process kind of weeds itself out as far as unsafe places because, okay, most of the time people aren't gonna let us come into their place if we're gonna fall through the floor and that kind of stuff. [00:09:35] Speaker A: Understood, Understood. [00:09:37] Speaker B: But if we do find ourselves in a situation where we go into a place and it's not safe, we will leave because we don't want to get anybody hurt. And we have, we have a responsibility for ourselves and the client not to die there and create more spirits and. [00:09:50] Speaker A: Then haunt the place yourselves. Right. For the next. [00:09:52] Speaker B: Exactly. [00:09:52] Speaker A: Yeah, right, right. So one question I did have is so before it seemed like, and correct me if I'm wrong, this is kind of my ignorance on this topic. People who were in paranormal or things that were not of this world, or what people thought they didn't see on a day by day basis. It's really been enhanced by the use of technology where more people have access to sit back and put their phone up like, yo, do you see? Do you hear X, Y and Z? Has that helped you or hurt this type of business that you're in? [00:10:20] Speaker B: A little bit of both really. Because like, you know, everybody's got ring cameras now. Yeah, Houses and that. And they're like, oh, look at these ghosts. I have in my house. And it's like, look, you have bugs or you had it. You know, it's dusty in there. You're outside, you know, like, especially if it's outside, if it's your door, ring, camera, there's so much, you know, moisture in the air, all that kind of stuff. [00:10:41] Speaker A: Right. [00:10:41] Speaker B: You know, we have all sorts of, you know, so it's helpful because sometimes you do get stuff that you can't explain on those cameras. But most of the time, it's very easy to explain. But we get people a lot. They're like, no, that's a. Gus. I know what it is. I had one woman, she came to me in a conference, we were doing, and she had a picture of a big blue orb in her living room. And she said, what is this? So we explained to her, like, orbs are. Could be anything in the air, really. It's just that, you know, and she was like, no, no, no, this is my grandma. Because the orb is the same color as the shirt we buried her in. So at that point, you just kind of let them have what they, you know, like, it's not her grandma, but, like, it's. [00:11:22] Speaker A: If she's made up her mind. Right. You're stuck in that little middle zone of. Yeah, you kind of have to believe sometimes. [00:11:28] Speaker B: We have to break people's hearts sometimes and be like, your picture is not a ghost. [00:11:31] Speaker A: But, you know, I gotta ask. I gotta ask you, have you ever. I'm sure this has probably been asked, have you ever definitively seen a ghost? [00:11:42] Speaker B: I. For what I believe, yes. I, you know, I've seen things often. Can I prove it to you? No. It's kind of something that you have to see on your own to have proof, you know, and. [00:11:55] Speaker A: Right. [00:11:55] Speaker B: A lot of people have. And, you know, a lot of people, you know, it's tough because it depends on each person's right, you know, religious beliefs and all that kind of stuff and how they're going to take everything. So, you know, everybody. A lot of people are trying to look for an explanation that's not going to scare them and let them sleep at night. [00:12:13] Speaker A: Right. So. So one of the questions sometimes people always ask, and I've asked myself this question sometimes, about things that are kind of unknown. How come, or at least in your experience, do people always tend to only see these things in the dark at night? And then they're usually quote, unquote, by themselves. So I think a lot of people are sitting back, have said, well, I'll believe it if it's, you Know, seeing me in the grocery store, I'm seeing in my car when I'm driving X, Y and Z. Or in your experience, do they do, do do things of this nature gravitate towards certain locations or times or dark areas? [00:12:48] Speaker B: As far as darkness goes, I think that people investigate in the dark because it's the thrill factor. I mean, sometimes, you know, we don't always have the lights on and stuff, but like, you're just as likely to see something in the daylight as you are the nighttime. It's just like if a client calls us and says, hey, this is what I'm seeing is happening in the afternoon and we're going to investigate in the afternoon. So I think it's most. The dark stuff is, you know, honestly, it takes away your senses of being able to see things, you know, and then of course, you're in the dark and you see shadows and then it plays through their imagination and, you know, you don't really know what you're seeing in the dark, so. [00:13:24] Speaker A: Right. [00:13:24] Speaker B: Because your eyes play tricks on you and all that. So investigating in the dark isn't necessarily something we have to do. And I mean, we do it because a lot of times it's nighttime when we investigate as well, because sometimes it's just easier. One of the reasons people investigate at night is because, like, maybe the business is open during the day, so you have to go in there and investigate at night. And also there's less traffic, less people around at night as well, so it's easier to control the environment for sure. [00:13:49] Speaker A: Do you know, do you see that you have a. More of a location where things tend to happen? Is it an abandoned building? Is it an old house? Is it a church? Is it a graveyard? Is there a particular location where you've seen things that happen in more of this particular type of location or area? [00:14:07] Speaker B: Probably, like, not really. I mean, historical locations are really fun to investigate and often have, you know, more, in my opinion. Maybe I'm just more interested in it. But we, we tend to get. Historical locations, tend to be really cool places to investigate. [00:14:23] Speaker A: That penitentiary that you guys do now. Yeah, you're braver than I am because I don't know if I'll be able to walk around in a prison. There's something about that. So you want to give a little bit of insight about that. I seem like that was really interesting. [00:14:37] Speaker B: Yeah, it's a cool place, that Idaho State Penitentiary. It's been closed since the 70s, but yeah, it's a very interesting place. Like the first time I was There I was kind of nervous that it was going to be, you know, feel dark and dreary and just bad because it's a prison and some of the areas kind of do. But again, it also feels very home, like, because those that was people's homes, they weren't going home, so they were making the best of it there. So it's not as scary as you would think. I mean, there are some areas there, like, Death Row is kind of sketchy, you know, because it's Death Row, you know. Yeah, yeah. [00:15:12] Speaker A: That's crazy. So just to pivot a bit, you're also on a radio station as well, too. You do a podcast the second Thursday of every single month on KXRW Vancouver. How's that podcast going? How did you get involved with that? [00:15:27] Speaker B: I was doing a podcast just like on Apple. Podcasts, Spotify, that kind of stuff. Yeah, I've always wanted to do radio and I thought, you know, and I found the radio station here in Vancouver, Washington, was like, I'm going to reach out to them and see if. If they'd be interested in taking the show. And sure enough, they were. So I've been doing that for about a year now. It's been airing on the radio now. [00:15:45] Speaker A: So that's awesome. [00:15:46] Speaker B: A lot of fun. [00:15:47] Speaker A: Well, congratulations. That's awesome. Congratulations to it. [00:15:50] Speaker B: Thank you. [00:15:50] Speaker A: So I got a question when it comes to paranormal, and this is, you know, I got a dozens of questions. How does one get. What's the governing body, the licensing, the. The. The. Is there some sort of process that you actually have to adhere to to do the work that you do and with your volunteers as well? [00:16:07] Speaker B: Unfortunately, there isn't a. There really isn't. So we have different ethics and stuff. We have with our team. But as far as everybody, there's just not. So you get a bunch of people that just don't know what they're doing. And I always tell people in the paranormal, stick to what you. You understand and what you. You're qualified for. It's like right now, because of the TV shows and everything, everybody's become a psychic, you know, like, you know, there are psychics out there who are legit, but. [00:16:33] Speaker A: Right. [00:16:34] Speaker B: Everybody is not a psychic. So we get all these psychics and then we get teams that really don't know what they're doing. They've snuck into some graveyards in the middle of the night, and now they're posting themselves on YouTube and they're cussing at the spirits and the unethical things that you don't want to do. And then they find themselves, you know, because they posted themselves over YouTube. They get clients calling them, saying, hey, can you come to my house and help me? Well, they don't have any experience and qualifications to help those people. So then they go in and feed them a bunch of BS and then I have to go clean it up. [00:17:06] Speaker A: That's terrible. That's terrible. Yeah. So, you know, unfortunately, the Internet can attract people to something they think they can make a quick buck or get famous for. Right. So, and that's. That's irrespective of every profession. Right. Everybody suddenly became it, you know, thinks they can build a house because they watch HGTV for five minutes. Right. [00:17:21] Speaker B: So. [00:17:22] Speaker A: And then they get the wake up call when they start actually trying to do it. So you have groups of volunteers. You have a pretty sizable team of people as well, too. So when they come up to you, they say, hey, you know, Jason, I want to get involved with this. What do you have to do to get involved with your group? [00:17:37] Speaker B: There's an application process. So they fill out an application just like with any job. And then just like with any other job, we would interview that person and try to figure out if they're a good fit for our team. And if they are, then we bring them on. They have a passive background check as well. Of course, we can't bring criminals into people's homes. Yeah. [00:17:54] Speaker A: Right. So you guys are obviously right now just in the. I saw Idaho, Washington, Oregon area. [00:18:00] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:18:01] Speaker A: Do you deal with other chapters around the country as well, too? Do you have any sort of national groups you meet with or any sort of conferences that you have on a larger scale? [00:18:09] Speaker B: Yeah, they do have a Chaps family reunion, which is they. They try to do it like yearly or every other year, but Covid really kind of put a stop to that. So we're actually working on doing one soon. But they just meet up at different haunted locations, you know, and just kind of get a hotel room together. You know, everybody stays in the same town and like gets together and talks about paranormal stuff and with the guys from the TV show and the ghost hunters TV show that they're always there and. Yeah. So it's kind of cool. It's one of those things that we don't talk about until after the fact because it's a confidential thing. Because it is. We do go into areas and investigate, so we don't tell people, hey, we got this coming up in June, and this is the town we're going to do. [00:18:52] Speaker A: Yeah, right, right. And it Keeps it quiet and you can do your job and things of that nature. [00:18:56] Speaker B: Yeah. So we can have a lot more fun for sure. [00:19:00] Speaker A: So one of the questions is, is that. So there's obviously fraudsters and people that do, you know, illegal things in the industry and as well too. But. And so you addressed that. But one of the things I also wanted to ask was what form does a. Does a ghost take? Is it. Is it a form of what somebody used to see, used to look like? Is it their deceased form that you've seen? Is it what, like how. What exactly? Because we've seen movies and we've seen TV show. What exactly? If somebody saw one, would they actually see? [00:19:32] Speaker B: It's. It really varies. I mean, some people have seen full body apparitions and, and you know, in that they would look like, you know, how they looked when they were alive. You know, so it really just kind of depends. I mean, like, have we proven that anything is a ghost? No, but I mean, I've seen some things. Like, you know, sometimes it's a shadow, sometimes it's just something you see out of the corner of your eye, and sometimes it's your imagination. You have to decide what's what, especially when you're. When you're on an investigation, you're trying so hard to. You want to see something, so you have to decipher in your mind, did I see that or was it my mind or what? [00:20:08] Speaker A: Right. [00:20:08] Speaker B: So as far as you know, I mean, there's been all sorts of different. Some people see balls of light, some people just pretty much anything. You can't really explain that you see, you know, you see, you know, some people see partial apparitions, so it's like just like their head or just like their legs or whatever. It just kind of depends, you know, like, it's really kind of wide open, really. [00:20:26] Speaker A: Okay. Okay. So from a personal perspective, what's the scariest one you've been on? Obviously, I know if it's confidential, that's fine, but can you give a general overview where you kind of. You and your team were like, yo, man, this is, this is next level stuff or even on a personal level that you've seen. [00:20:42] Speaker B: Honestly, the, the most, the most difficult part about being a paranormal investigator and dealing with is the clients that we deal with. So they can. They're way scarier sometimes then because you don't really know what you're getting into till you show up on location. We did have one residential years ago where we got there. The guy said his, you know, he's got a wife and a couple of dogs, and he was telling us that there was a spirit in his house that was there hurting him and, like, pulling him out of bed at night and that kind of stuff. Oh, wow. So logically, from a logical standpoint, I was pretty sure that wasn't going on, but I'm not there to see, so we have to go check it out. So. [00:21:19] Speaker A: Right, right, right. [00:21:20] Speaker B: We get there, there is no wife, and there's. I mean, there's evidence of dogs, but they're not there. So I just kind of assumed that maybe she wasn't comfortable with the investigation. Maybe they wouldn't got a hotel for the night. [00:21:30] Speaker A: For sure. For sure. [00:21:33] Speaker B: Yeah. So I could tell pretty much right away that this guy. I mean, sometimes you could just tell that people struggle for, you know, chemical dependency type stuff. You know, I'm not an expert, but sometimes you could just tell for sure. And so he was telling us about, you know, he's got a demon in this house, and it speaks French. And thankfully he does, too. So he understands it, which is odd, right? So he starts saying, yeah, then I start saying, he's got hunting knives. Just like, you know, you wouldn't just leave your hunting knife strategically placed out there. It was just odd places to leave the hunting. So I was like, you know, trying to figure out what this guy's deal was. And so I had him go. We set up a camera in his bedroom, and we're like, okay, go to bed. You know, let's see if it pulls you out of bed on the camera. And of course, he fakes like it does, as I knew he was going to, which is why I set it up. I didn't think a demon was going to pull him out of bed on camera just to try to. So I could get on video what was going on with this guy. So is it a mental health issue? Is he just trying to play games with us? Is he on drugs? What's his motive? And I think with this guy, it was a little bit of all of those things. And so at one point, he's like, we need to go back. The demon wants us to go outside and go into my shed in the backyard. [00:22:43] Speaker A: No, thank you. [00:22:44] Speaker B: Yeah, and that's exactly why I said, well, we're not gonna do that because I don't want to go find the wife and the dogs in the shed. Of course, that was my first thought. What's the shed? So I was like, sorry, we're not gonna go in your shed. And he was getting mad. He's like the team was getting really upset since we have to go into effing shed. And I'm like, we're not going into your shed. [00:23:03] Speaker A: Right. [00:23:03] Speaker B: So that point we just kind of wrapped it up. Like we didn't put stuff away, grabbed our stuff and just threw in the car and just kind of bounced. Yeah, it was kind of one of those situations where, I mean, we, we looked over the video and the audio and stuff. Of course we didn't find anything, but for sure we. I basically just told him like, you know, have you ever, you know, gotten help for narcotics issues? And he said, well, yeah, you know, like I actually missed in a meeting when you guys were, well, maybe you should go back to this. [00:23:31] Speaker A: Absolutely. [00:23:32] Speaker B: You know, like, yeah, start there and then, you know. [00:23:34] Speaker A: Right, yeah. Step by step. And you know, I don't want to. Obviously I'm not making fun of alcoholism because the guy clearly had some issues that were irrespective of what he thought he was seeing or he could have just been attention starved and lonely. But I'm sure sometimes that could take the case of it too. You know, you're sitting here right now probably in other places that you didn't go inside that shed either because who knows, you know, what else he was dealing with. [00:23:53] Speaker B: I always look at it as a client, like he may have a drug issue or he may have an alcohol problem. That also doesn't mean he has, doesn't have something paranormal going on. [00:24:01] Speaker A: Right, right. [00:24:02] Speaker B: Because honestly, you know, there's a theory that if you're on drugs and stuff like that, you have a warp sense of what reality is because you can't make sense of things because you're on drugs, that maybe spirits can take advantage of that. [00:24:15] Speaker A: Okay, so people who said that things have happened to them and they've had scars and bruises and things of that nature, is that, is that valid information to say that that can happen to people when they can wake up and. [00:24:28] Speaker B: Scratches and I've never seen it. I've never seen it. That doesn't mean it doesn't happen. I. People claim that things happen all the time. Usually there's logical expression, especially if you're waking up with scratches or bruises or stuff because you don't know what you did in your sleep. [00:24:43] Speaker A: Right. [00:24:43] Speaker B: You know, some of us are, are, you know, maybe we had an itch in our sleep and maybe we scratched it too much and you know that in our sleep. Or you know, maybe, you know, we smacked our knee on the wall or something, I don't know. But like, we try to always find logical explanations for that. But I mean, I'm not saying it can't happen. I'm just saying that I don't. I've never seen it. So. [00:25:03] Speaker A: Got it. Yeah, got it. So that's pretty cool, right? So you guys always try to find the reasonable explanation behind what something could happen to somebody. You know, it's kind of a process of elimination. So to speak up. Yeah, that's cool. That's. [00:25:15] Speaker B: We never just shop and going, okay, this has to be a ghost. In fact, we usually. One of the main things I do is I don't let my team know what we're going into. So they have no idea. My, like, I'll be like, hey, meet me at this location. But it's like, you know, somewhere else in the town. You're like, the other day we had a. I was like, meet me in the Walmart parking lot. Because I don't want to tell anybody where we're going. Everybody met me in the Walmart parking lot. Like, everybody follow me. We're looking that way. They're not. If I tell them where they're going, we're going, they can jump online and read the stuff. [00:25:46] Speaker A: Right? I have a pre. Somebody could have made a post and they could have preconceived notions of what they thought they were going to see amongst themselves. And yeah, that makes, that makes a lot of sense. So obviously, to protect the anonymity of your customers is really good though. But I'm sure at some point that there was something that was really valid from somebody who didn't have anything before. Are multiple people from your teams all able to see things or is it just exclusive to one person or even hear anything in particular? Do you hear clear words, sentences, echoes, things of that nature? [00:26:16] Speaker B: We don't have, I mean, we have people on our team that, that say they're sensitive to, you know, like, psychic type stuff, but we don't really use that in our investigations very much because we can't prove that. Now if. So we tell those people, like, if you come across something, write it down, don't say anything. You know, like, if you get a name or whatever, or, you know, that way if afterwards, when we're, when we're doing our debriefing, we're talking about, hey, did anybody have experiences? If they have that written down and then somebody else is like, oh, I saw that too. Then we can be like, okay, maybe, you know, like. Or like, if the psychic person that claims to be psychic on our team, if they okay, so I'm getting this name. If in our historical research, we found that name on our historical research, if somebody used to live there, that's, we could say, hey, that's kind of cool, because, you know, they didn't have any of the information, but they did come up with a correct name. So that's that kind of stuff we use. But we don't, we don't have somebody come in and being like, oh, there's a man over here. You know, we don't, we don't do that for sure because then everybody sees a man over there at that point. [00:27:18] Speaker A: Understood? [00:27:19] Speaker B: Mr. Yeah. [00:27:20] Speaker A: Well, you know, I think this has been kind of interesting because I don't get a chance very often to ask kind of questions like these. Did you have any questions for me? [00:27:29] Speaker B: Not really, no. I mean, like, where does your podcast usually air? Where do people reach out to you? [00:27:34] Speaker A: Well, it's, it's funny because I started it right now, you know, organically filming the episodes, and I'm going to have it on all the major podcast platforms. I'm kind of learning. I'm so doing this solo. Right. And I was fortunate enough that you responded back to me because what you do is so out of left field, so to speak. It's like out of my zone of people I would normally talk to. And so you'll hear it on all the major channels coming up soon. I'll make sure to give you a link on our episode in particular, but I wanted to make sure that I talked to people who had fields of interest and things that were interesting to me. That's kind of why I named it the Tron Podcast, because I think it's important to keep your mind open to various different things, whether it's a documentary, whether it's a way something is built, whether somebody who invests in paranoia. You know, I'd like to learn about, you know, UFOs and things like that, you know, just because that's not something that you could ever. People do these things for a living. Right. And it's important to actually hear from people who do it for a living because you can self educate, but sometimes you can only take that so far. [00:28:33] Speaker B: Yeah. As I try to work with other paranormal teams and, and people that do this, because you can learn stuff. You learn things that you don't think about, like. [00:28:42] Speaker A: Absolutely. [00:28:43] Speaker B: I have a, I have a friend who's a psychic medium. His name is William Becker. He's a really good guy, and he took me into this place called the Ermatinger House, which is in Oregon City. And I don't know if you know the story of Portland, but there was a guy when they were trying to name the city of Portland, there was a guy from Portland, Maine and a guy from Boston. And each one of them wanted to name their city, the new city after their city. So they did a coin toss and they believe that coin toss was in the Ermatinger house. Of course, the guy from Portland won. So this house is a very historic house in Oregon City. And, and they do like to go stores and stuff there. It's supposed to be haunted. It's very historical. It's a cool place. So he takes me in there and just like lets me walk around and check the place out. [00:29:24] Speaker A: Right. [00:29:24] Speaker B: And then we go out to coffee afterwards. And he says to me, when you go into a historic location like that, if you walk into that, you have to think about who are the spirits that occupy this house if you want to communicate with him, who are they? So when you walk into that location, if you're wearing a hat and these spirits are from like 1890s or whatever, you've now offended them because you don't wear hats in the house. [00:29:47] Speaker A: Right, right, right, right. Inside the houses and things like that. [00:29:49] Speaker B: Yeah, he's talking about, yeah. And then he was like, don't use their first names. If you think it's, you know, this person is supposed to haunt this house, you need to address them as Mr. Or Mrs. Not their first name. Because that was, that was offensive to them back then as well. And just stuff like that, you don't think about the common sense stuff is. But, but yeah, yeah, because he, you know, he said the spirits, they don't like your hat. And I was like, yeah, that makes complete sense. [00:30:14] Speaker A: Right? And unless you were told that you would have never crossed your mind to even think like that, it never would. [00:30:17] Speaker B: I wouldn't. I mean, maybe eventually, but like, you know, like, but you have to use a lot of common sense stuff like that. It's that you might not think about. So that's, that's why it's good to learn from other teams and other people and never, never think that you know, everything. You're like, you know, be open minded. [00:30:33] Speaker A: Of course, of course. Yeah. And then it helps to have this historical reference of something before you actually get into it. Like, you know, the medium that he's in, he's obviously doing all the background search and say, okay, who would have occupied this? And I could find the best opportunity to have what I'm looking for here. And who would have occupied this particular situation? Do you go out of the. Out of your tri state area for any reason at all? [00:30:54] Speaker B: If I could afford to, absolutely. Like I travel. I would travel anywhere if I had the budget for it. [00:30:59] Speaker A: So. Of course, of course. You know, what's. Do you guys. So you guys do houses? I mean, has anybody ever asked you to do like a boat or. Or anything kind of the cabin in the woods kind of doing thing or anything like that? [00:31:10] Speaker B: Nothing terribly. I did have a woman call me and say her son that lives in an RV outside their house has a demon in his RV and he can't leave because it won't let him leave and it's doing inappropriate things to him. And I was like, I don't think I want to go. [00:31:25] Speaker A: No, no, no, no, no, no, no, we're good. I'm good. [00:31:28] Speaker B: I was like, I was like, has your son seen. Because he's an adult, you know, I was like, has he seen his doctor and talked to his doctor about the things he's. Well, they'll lock him up. Yeah. They'll stabilize him, that's for sure. [00:31:41] Speaker A: Right. [00:31:41] Speaker B: You know, they. But like he lost his job and everything because he won't. He says this demon won't leave his trailer or whatever. Won't let him leave. [00:31:49] Speaker A: Yeah, that's a deep one. And I wish I was qualified to give a good answer about that one. [00:31:53] Speaker B: So hopefully it has to be mental health issue maybe. Yeah, I'm gonna try that so I don't have to go to work, you know. But it's sad because I mean this guy really believed because I spoke to him too and he really believed that those things were happening to him. And he was telling me that inappropriate things were happening to him. [00:32:11] Speaker A: Yeah, he needed some. He needs professional help at that point. Yeah, you really don't. [00:32:15] Speaker B: That can do for. [00:32:16] Speaker A: No, no, man. That's above the skies of scope of your job if you're a job title. Well, I'll tell you what, you know, I don't have any other particular questions. I just never got a chance to really pick the brain of the paranormal. I think this has been an awesome opportunity to speak with you. Is there some information that we can make sure. Obviously you're very popular on your own. You don't need me, you know, to spread your information, but you just want to give it to our audience real quick of where they can locate you. [00:32:39] Speaker B: Yeah, we'[email protected] and then you could listen to my show at hassling the paranormal. And that's what the name of the show. But it's on KXRW fm. All my episodes are there. You can listen to them online or if you're in the area, it's every second Thursday of the month at 6:00pm and then re airs on Wednesdays at 6:00pm so. Yeah. And it just throws out a random show every Wednesday. I don't even know which one it's going to be. So it's kind of cool. I have to listen myself to find out which one they're airing. So. [00:33:09] Speaker A: Yeah. So that's 99.9, right? [00:33:12] Speaker B: That's correct. [00:33:13] Speaker A: You're awesome. Awesome. Well, I really appreciate your time for coming on the Tron podcast. Ladies and gentlemen, Jason Hassler. Thank you. [00:33:19] Speaker B: Thanks for having me.