Dr. Evelyn Higgins

[00:00:00] Speaker A: Foreign. Thank you and welcome back, everyone, to the Tron podcast. This is your host, Rashad Woods. Today I have a very special and accomplished guest whose accomplishments speak for themselves, whose work spans decades and has helped multitudes of people. Dr. Evelyn Higgins. Thank you very much, Rashad. [00:00:38] Speaker B: Thank you. It's a pleasure to be on here with you. [00:00:40] Speaker A: First of all, just, you know, your field of work, addiction that you do, it touches every single aspect of life. And, you know, can we get just a basic background about your introduction to medicine? I know it was the state of New York and Harvard, but I'd love to hear, you know, kind of your breakdown of how you got in this field. [00:00:59] Speaker B: Sure, sure, sure. So I started out physical medicine, integrative practice. And I was in a rural area at first, and I was seeing people not having their needs met and becoming dependent on meds. You know, and this is some 30 plus years ago, and then 20 years after that, I'm like, well, maybe it's just because I'm in the country and there's no resources. Okay, so then I'm in an urban area and I'm seeing the exact same thing this time, because time had moved forward. I'm seeing people go from dependent to addicted, right? And I'm like, what we're doing is just kind of guesswork. You know, we're throwing darts and hope we land someplace close. And this is people's lives, right? And then personally, I married an alcoholic man who had really several addictions. We had a daughter. A year. A year after she's born, we find out that he's adopted and we know nothing of his health history whatsoever. I'm seeing these behaviors of addiction and mental health concerns in him. Now I have a child. I'm like, as mom, what do I need to know, right? So, you know, as a parent, that's. That's what you're here for. You know, you're the. You're the umbrella to all of this. [00:02:21] Speaker A: Absolutely, absolutely. [00:02:22] Speaker B: Yeah. So I kind of segued into the, there's gotta be other ways to do this. And I had been doing more and more education through this whole 35 years of being in practice, always wanting to learn more and do more. I'm like, we still in the area of addiction and mental health. We're practicing like, it's 1950. None of this makes sense. Other areas of health care and health have evolved. [00:02:47] Speaker A: Right. [00:02:47] Speaker B: Using technology, using. Using diagnostics. We're saying, sounds like, looks like, try this, try that. We're still not incorporating any of that technology. And Moving the diagnostics forward into that area of addiction, mental health. [00:03:04] Speaker A: Because it's moral flaw, right? [00:03:07] Speaker B: Exactly. Exactly. And in my TED Talk, Rashad, that's exactly what I say. I mean, this is not a moral flaw. [00:03:14] Speaker A: Right. [00:03:15] Speaker B: You know, it's. This is health. And like any other disease or condition, we have to look at it the exact same way. And where again, back to, you know, we're using diagnostics in other areas, but in this area we're not. It's almost like, you know what, you got yourself here, you can get yourself out. We're not going to put the time into you. And there's nothing that can be further from the truth because you look at just the domino theory of how many people are involved in the life of someone who has an addiction, who has mental health concerns. It's so deep. [00:03:53] Speaker A: Yeah, I thought it was great when I was listening to what you said. You said the absence of. I'm gonna paraphrase it. Just because you're not sick doesn't mean you're well. [00:04:03] Speaker B: Health is not the absence of disease. [00:04:05] Speaker A: Right. And I just, I sat there and stunned and I was like, you know, I never really thought about that that way. Just because, you know, you know, because everything's a lot of. I'm not a doctor, but I would always. If you felt a certain way, then you never thought anything was wrong. [00:04:18] Speaker B: Right? Right. Right. Health is not the absence of disease. And we're not healthy one day and sick the next. That's not how it works. Maybe the occurrence happened that day. [00:04:29] Speaker A: Right. [00:04:29] Speaker B: But all this time is when we're moving towards healthy or sick. [00:04:34] Speaker A: Right. [00:04:34] Speaker B: And that's, that's the part that we fail to recognize which is slapped right in front of our face. [00:04:40] Speaker A: Right. [00:04:41] Speaker B: Because we want a quick fix for everything. [00:04:44] Speaker A: Why do you think there's such a resistance? You know, because you, with all due respect, you were ahead of the curve with treating this because now you're seeing documentaries and, and news broadcast about, hey, this is, we have to change the way we've been doing things. You identified that 30 years ago, and I'm sure you were screaming to the mountaintops, this is the way to do things. What finally kind of came to a head with the industry and society that kind of started to pivot a little bit. [00:05:09] Speaker B: Great question. I think it was a couple of different things. One, from the science aspect of it, we didn't have all available that we have now. [00:05:16] Speaker A: Right. [00:05:17] Speaker B: Like the way that the technology that we use in our company to look at what we call SNPs or single nucleotide polymorphisms, polymorphism, where there's a variant in the gene, an error in the gene. Okay. To look at those things that only came about tail end of 2014. 15. [00:05:36] Speaker A: Okay. Okay. [00:05:37] Speaker B: So in fairness, this is still new. And I say that in air quotes, right? Because in science, it takes so long to disseminate the information and people to say, I'm willing to do this a new way, because people have their routine. This is how I do my job. I'm not bringing anything new into it. It's like, yeah, but even if we can get better results, you don't want to bring anything new in, you know? Yeah, there was that part of it. There was a science part of it. And also just there wasn't any. Like, why does this need to be on the top of our list? [00:06:10] Speaker A: How does. Now the US Has a certain approach to handling addiction and you very well travel globally. Is there a difference between countries of how they treat addiction and resources that are available? [00:06:21] Speaker B: Great question, Rashad, because really, the answer is no. [00:06:25] Speaker A: Really? [00:06:26] Speaker B: I think that stigma and that moral flaw thing circulates across the planet. [00:06:31] Speaker A: Okay. [00:06:32] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:06:32] Speaker A: Okay. [00:06:33] Speaker B: I was at a conference in Abu Dhabi. It was the International Society of Substance Professionals, and I was sharing my. My findings and my information. So I'm at a lunch table with people from all over the world. I'm like, okay, so in your country, give me the top four addictions. And interestingly enough, because it, like, we're a capitalist nation in the United States, right? We don't consider cigarettes, of course, or marijuana on that list of, like, we don't. Wait, that doesn't count. [00:07:04] Speaker A: Right? Right. I mean, you can go to 7, 11. Let's not talk about that. Let's talk about. [00:07:08] Speaker B: Exactly. Let's get to the heavier stuff. But interestingly enough, other countries would start out with those two and then go down to the exact same ones. I'm like, wow, this is no different anywhere. You know why? Because we're all. While we all have our nuances in our DNA, right? 8 billion people in the world with 8 billion different sets of DNA. No one's exactly the same. What's problematic is because we treat everybody as if they're the same and we're not getting the results right. But when you look at people, people are the same. We've all had different stories. We've all had different little things that go on in our lives, but we all have the same needs. We're all the same people. And interestingly enough, with addictions, it was the Exact, exact same. It's what is going to pacify me to feel better in this moment. So I don't feel whatever I'm trying not to feel. [00:08:04] Speaker A: Correct. [00:08:05] Speaker B: Right. And it's whatever comes along, whatever age you are, wherever you are, whatever comes along first, that's like, man, that's what makes me feel better. I got this. I'm doing it tomorrow. [00:08:17] Speaker A: Right, right. And so, you know, you have your. You dipped your toes into so many different things. You're. You worked with the Olympics, you work with athletes, you're a public speaker in both stateside as well as internationally. And you said there's an overriding theme when it comes to what people are seeking for now, availability of medicine. Just going to deviate a little bit. Is there better opportunity here, or did you notice that there's more experimental drugs in other locations that have helped people get achievable certain results? [00:08:43] Speaker B: Good question. I think overall, we are pretty good with what we have available as a whole. Is that available to everyone? Maybe a different question. Right, Correct. But some places that are doing things that I kind of like how they're doing are much smaller countries, so that's easier to manage. 8 million people total in your country, you know, versus 337 million. So there's variables in it. But interesting that, like at these world global conferences, people are sharing their information. We are sharing best practices. We are sharing, you know, this can be done anywhere. Because if we use the technology that's grown to allow people to communicate, we can effectively do a better job. It's. Do we want to do a better job? [00:09:40] Speaker A: And I love the fact that you had the kit that was available, you know, for testing for any sort of addiction or genetic predisposition towards things. So when. When people take that kit and obviously things are very private, what typically would a patient or a person be looking for? Because obviously they can go to their regular physician for X, Y and Z. My blood pressure, my. My cholesterol levels to seek your services out will be something different. Where they said, I'm specifically either my father, my mother, my grandfather had this issue. I'm trying to stay away from it and correct me if I'm wrong. [00:10:12] Speaker B: No, Right, right. [00:10:13] Speaker A: I see myself falling into this particular path, and I want to know if I'm genetically predisposed to this. [00:10:18] Speaker B: Right, right. Great question, Rashad. Because prior, really, all we had, like, to see family history was, you know, at Thanksgiving, Uncle Joe, he throws him back, and then he's out of his tree, you know, and that became the family chatter. Right. But that's all we have. That's all we have to go on, you know, and Aunt Mary's a little out there, so. But that was it. Now where we know that we can look up our genetic makeup. And here's the thing, Rashad, no one has the perfect genome. Some people may think they're perfect, right? But nobody has the perfect genome. And we all have strengths and we all have weaknesses, but it's in knowing what those weaknesses are is where we can then say we can optimize this. And perfect world to me is this is done early in someone's life and only has to be done once because it's a DNA test. What changes is the expression of your genes, right? So you get it done once. You know, here's where my weaknesses it is. So when it's time for your buddies at whatever age to say, hey, man, Rashad, we're gonna go behind school and we're gonna do a little bit of this and that. I mean, that's what kids do, right? Course, like, you have a little bit of an antenna in you saying, I don't know that this is the best thing for me. [00:11:35] Speaker A: Right? [00:11:35] Speaker B: Because next day, when your butters are like, all right, we did that, you're like, no, no, I want to do this again. I want to do it again. They're like, we did that yesterday. We're doing something different today. No, no, no, I want to do it. This is why. [00:11:46] Speaker A: Right? [00:11:47] Speaker B: There's a predisposition there. [00:11:49] Speaker A: Right. And, you know, it's interesting you say that, because I think when, you know, we'll refer back a little bit earlier when we talk about, you know, people who are being addicted to things. This is not. When you. When you did your experience of rural versus urban, you know, there's misconceptions about this particular group of addicted people because they're not strong, they're not weak, they don't have access to resources and capital. [00:12:11] Speaker B: Right. [00:12:11] Speaker A: What the reality about it is is that it just hits every single segment of society. It's just a question of whether you're, you know, the consequences sometimes of what people are seeing on tv, you know? [00:12:22] Speaker B: Yep, yep, Exactly. It defies every barrier. It's everywhere. And it's. Is there an awareness that things can be done differently? You know, that that's the biggest thing. I mean, that's why I do podcasts like yours to. To share this information with people, because people, like, after, they're like, wow, I had no idea. I'm like. And the shameful part is that we're not sharing that. [00:12:50] Speaker A: No question. [00:12:51] Speaker B: Because it can make an equal playing ground. [00:12:53] Speaker A: Yeah. And I think, you know, when I research, I would research a lot of times when people, you know the history of drugs and I don't want to over talk you, but it was a lot of it was when they would have to have soldiers recover from battle and war. [00:13:03] Speaker B: Yeah, right. [00:13:03] Speaker A: And so eventually then it became more widely, you know, it doesn't get anybody, I hate to say it, when, when the chemist found out what worked, it got widely spread. Right? [00:13:12] Speaker B: You got it. You got it. Yeah. And it's that, that's what makes addiction a biopsychosocial disease. Right. It's not just, here's the problem, here's how we're going to treat it. There are so many layers to addiction because we look at what we do, the foundational part, we have to know your unique physiology. Starting point across the board, we have to know that. And then it's what's happened in your life. Right. The big T's, the little T's, the big traumas. The little traumas, when did they happen to you? At what point were you then, where were you in your life when you were exposed to whatever becomes your choice of numbing yourself? But there's always all of those different pieces. But the genetic piece is measurable. Right. So we need to know that. And then it's that. Okay, what happened to you, it's not a finger pointing, a moral flaw. It's like, tell me the rest of your life. [00:14:08] Speaker A: So when you have this kit that's available and obviously it's separate from, you know, a government program or employer sponsor sponsored insurance program, have you pressed employers to try to get this as part of the benefits package for. Yeah, I can't imagine. You have it. Right. [00:14:23] Speaker B: Yep, yep. [00:14:24] Speaker A: How does that go over and what's the, what's been the resistance from the industry? [00:14:28] Speaker B: Resistance from the industry is if it's within the addiction space itself. Believe it or not, for as sick as this sounds, part of their business model is people relapsing. [00:14:39] Speaker A: Yeah, right, right, right. [00:14:42] Speaker B: As sick as that sounds. [00:14:44] Speaker A: Yeah. Oh, wow. [00:14:46] Speaker B: And that, I mean, I could just go off on that for, for a while. But the other part is some corporations have embraced it. Some are like, yeah, you know, we really don't want to put that much into a program. But when you think about it, what does it cost you to retrain an individual to do this person's job? Just do this. [00:15:08] Speaker A: Right. [00:15:08] Speaker B: You know? [00:15:09] Speaker A: Right. [00:15:09] Speaker B: It's cheaper in the end. If all you care about is dollars and cents, you're going to save money doing it this way. [00:15:17] Speaker A: I think the most interesting thing is that as a parent myself, you know, you could sit back and say this traitor characteristic could be helpful to your children as well too. You know, like, oh, the first thing that went through my mind is like, you know, a kit like that, like, what if my kid is predisposition, doesn't even know and they reach a certain age? And then as the parent, you're like, wait a minute, how come I never saw that come? [00:15:38] Speaker B: Yep, yep, yep. You bring up a great point. Because I can't tell the amount of times we see somebody like say 21 years old and the parent says, I have never seen this behavior in my daughter ever. [00:15:49] Speaker A: Right. [00:15:50] Speaker B: I'm like, okay, what happened over the past year? [00:15:54] Speaker A: Right. [00:15:54] Speaker B: Well, they went to college, they're making decisions by themselves for the first time. They're trying to do school, they're trying to handle a part time job, they're having fun. So they're not sleeping, probably not eating, and they've got all brand new friends. So their entire environment has changed. So it was always here. But environmentally these genes weren't turned on and that's why we never saw the behavior. That's the beauty of it's called, that's called epigenetics. So there's genetics, there's epigenetics. It's only in recent history that we've learned all we know about epigenetics to say, this is the game changer, because this gives the power back to the individual. We've identified this. Here's what we can do to optimize it. You're still in the driver's seat. [00:16:40] Speaker A: I think what you said about this statement, because when I left for college, and what's crazy is you're 18 years old, you graduate in June, May, and then literally within 90 days, you can do the visit, you can go to the campus, you can do all that, your parents can be alumni, et cetera. But that's a huge leap in 90 days. Like, yeah, it's not even like you can't even describe it to somebody. [00:17:05] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:17:06] Speaker A: You know, you could have strict parents, you could have had loose parents who let you kind of do your own thing. But there's nothing mentally that really prepares you for like, yo, I actually could have like full control of my time. [00:17:15] Speaker B: Exactly. What do I do now? [00:17:17] Speaker A: Right, right. [00:17:18] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:17:19] Speaker A: You know? [00:17:19] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:17:20] Speaker A: You start kind of looking over your shoulder a little bit like, who's gonna tell me I can't do that. [00:17:24] Speaker B: Yeah, nobody. So I'm gonna double down on it. You know, it's like. And we've all been there, of course, of course. [00:17:31] Speaker A: So when you talk, you talked about people who have, I saw briefly the people who tried to self medicate. What's your recommendations, pluses, minuses of people who kind of said, you know what? I know I have an addiction, I'm gonna. We've all seen cold Turkey in the shows. Like how does that work? [00:17:48] Speaker B: Depending on what the addiction is. Like if you're an alcoholic and you go cold turkey, you could die. That's actually the most dangerous. [00:17:55] Speaker A: Yes, yes, I saw that. You have to go off in stages. [00:17:59] Speaker B: Exactly. And people think, well it's just alcohol, I can buy it in the store, it can't be that bad. [00:18:04] Speaker A: Right. [00:18:05] Speaker B: That's the most dangerous actually. So depending on where the person is in their addiction really is what we would need to know of. Where should we start with this individual? Like if you go to our website Wired for Addiction or Wired Biohealth, you can get a complimentary consultation with one of our clinicians or wellness counselors and share your story of where you're at. Because we may say first I want you to go detox at a facility for three days, five days, seven days, wherever. It depends on where they're at. But while we're doing that, we're going to send you the lab kit, you're going to do your buccal swab, your cheek swab. So we have that information. When you get out, we're ready to jump in. Another kind of addiction. Let's say that their alcoholism isn't that bad, that they binge drink, maybe, you know, weekends, something like that. Okay, we can handle that a different way. Let's just jump right into the swabs, let's get going, you know all. And then there's what we call the process addictions. Sex, porn, gambling, shopping, food. Right. Those are all addictions as well. It's whatever you're taking from the outside to bring inside to change how you're feeling in here, what makes you what you think feel better. And you're doing that self medicating, not even knowing that's what you're doing. You are trying to change physiologically what's happening with you. [00:19:29] Speaker A: That's, that's nuts. And you know, and you know a lot of people. I think also what hasn't helped is technology that's at people's disposal right now to a degree. Right. I mean I remember getting a Computer and, like, it was like in the living room. Right. And you, like, you had to have access to it. It was a process to get technology in your household. [00:19:45] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, yeah. [00:19:46] Speaker A: Now everybody has a smartphone and has, you know, all these different devices, and people can get their vices in real time. [00:19:52] Speaker B: You got access 24 7. [00:19:54] Speaker A: Right, right. [00:19:55] Speaker B: So it's in your face. [00:19:57] Speaker A: Yeah. And so what lifestyles have you seen that are more conducive to addiction? Just overall, like, if you had to kind of say, okay, if this was like the. The bubble, you know, do you have five to 10 things that maybe you could be a possible potential, you know, addicted to something not healthy, you know. [00:20:17] Speaker B: It really runs the gamut of everything, Rashad. [00:20:20] Speaker A: Okay. [00:20:20] Speaker B: You know, that's why knowing what your unique physiology is. Is so important, because I could say, like, in with kids, like that high school transition kind of thing, the uber rich societies where mom and dad are never present, they're looking for something else. But I can also say in an impoverished community where mom and dad aren't present, we can see the same thing. So it's just, you know, I can't really say across the board because it's everywhere. It's everywhere. And then there's your quiet, you know, Like, I was on a podcast yesterday, and the host brought up porn and sex addiction. And I said, I've talked to people that we've had as, as patients and clients that have been having affairs their entire marriage. 40 years. That one, you don't see the way someone who's coming in hungover, you can tell, hasn't showered in days, right? You're like, man, what are you doing? I can see you're going downhill. What are you doing? We need to talk. But that one, you don't see anything. And, you know, oftentimes I'll say, as sad as it sounds, it's when they get busted that it's like, now I need to do something because I'm going to lose my family, my home, my money, my everything. And no one sets out to wake up one day and say, today's the day. I'm going all in. I'm gonna lose my wife, my husband, my kids, my job, my home, my money. I'm gonna lose everything, right? No one. It's this creeping, creeping, creeping boom. And then you're there. [00:21:58] Speaker A: I think, you know, you mentioned that. And I'll just talk briefly about a film I watched. It came out, like 10 years ago with Michael Fassbender. Shame. I believe that was what it was called. I Don't know if you've ever seen that movie, but he had. It's a really, really, really great movie. But it's similar about the topic you just talked about, because, you know, you're. You're sitting there watching this movie and you're like, yo. They're actually addressing exactly what you just talked about. Like, the guy was like, yeah, he was like a software engineer or marketing guy or something like that. And then you found out he had this darker side, but he didn't come in hungover and nobody saw. That's immediately what I thought about when I heard them. Oh, yes, this is deep. I did want to ask you briefly, and I know you've told your story, so I'm not putting anything out there that you haven't said. Something you said about your second stroke, mini stroke you had at 46, that kind of resonated with me. Can you talk about that a little bit briefly? [00:22:44] Speaker B: Sure, absolutely. I mean, I was living a ridiculous life. You know, I look back now and, like, the levels of stress were just ridiculous. And could I say, you know, well, I have to do this, I have to do that, and justify every step of the way? Yeah, I could. You know, I'm a single parent. I'm a blah, blah. My husband's addiction had him die at 42. You know, it's like. And I. These. All these things that I have to do. Justified. Okay. But, you know, my daughter's the most important person in the world to me, and I'm going to leave her with no parents because this is what's happening with me. And it was like, when I talk about, you're not healthy one day and sick the next, I was. I was headed to that mini stroke at TIA every day, right? And it was the day it happened, and it was actually the second one that took me to the emergency room because the first one, I didn't have time for, like, what? You know, you hear yourself say, what are you, an idiot? Right? But I. I can laugh now. [00:23:41] Speaker A: I want to laugh, right? [00:23:43] Speaker B: Yeah, I could laugh now. But that's the insanity of it. We all tell ourselves our own stories that we want to hear, right? Yeah. So my. My office manager says to me, doc, you're having a stroke. My reply, I know. So she's like, her. Her husband's an emt. She's like, he's coming in. He comes in and she's like, I'm going to call the ambulance. I said, just drive me. Because then I could still speak. I knew what was happening. I Was pretty much slumped over my desk by the time we got to the hospital, which was like 20 minutes ish. I couldn't speak and I couldn't walk. She had to do the intake for me, answer the questions. I'm in a wheelchair. It went that fast? [00:24:24] Speaker A: Jeez. [00:24:25] Speaker B: Yeah. So first time I had taken, so. But I'm still in the emergency room. I'm back up, doctor, you know, several hours of diagnostics, all that kind of stuff. I'm on IVs, yada, yada, the whole. The whole workup. And the doctor says, well, you've had a transient ischemic attack, a mini stroke. I'm like. I said, this is actually my second one. He's like, what? I said, I had one 10 days ago. He goes, you got to be kidding me. I'm like, no, no, I didn't have time. And I got away with that one. Like, this one was into much longer and more serious. And he said, well, your chances of having a full blown stroke that takes you out of the game within the next 90 days are much greater. You need to. And he says two things. You need to reduce your stress and take a baby aspirin a day. So this is hours later. I have half a funny bone left by that time. Like, doc, slow down. I need to write down, reduce stress. [00:25:20] Speaker A: Right? How do you do that? Right. Especially hearing that. [00:25:23] Speaker B: Yeah, how do you do that? [00:25:24] Speaker A: Right. [00:25:25] Speaker B: But it was time to get real, you know, And I started doing a lot of research. Now this is. I'm 64 now, so that's how long ago that was. [00:25:33] Speaker A: Right, Right. [00:25:34] Speaker B: I start doing research, I'm like, I need more than obviously, reduced stress. But what was changing physiologically in my body? That got me to the point of the incident on that day. That changed my ability to speak, walk, think, all of it. [00:25:51] Speaker A: Right. [00:25:52] Speaker B: So I started learning about neurotransmitters, which now today are much more common in conversation. Things like serotonin and dopamine. But then people would be like, what are you talking about? You know, nobody was talking about those things then. So I started doing a lot of research. I'm like, I need to know how I got here. I know stress got me here, but what was happening physiologically. So that was kind of the beginning of the change for me into the neuroscience, epigenetics, and then be. And prior to that, I had already been doing, became a diplomat in addictions, compulsive disorders, all that because of what was going on with my husband, my daughter, what I needed to know from a standpoint and then, like I said, it was only 2015 that the ability to look at the genetic SNPs comes about. You know, and then in fairness to science, then we had Covid, and all our time was spent on that. So there's this lapse of what else can we learn and what's new. [00:26:48] Speaker A: Right. Right now. I know, and I know. I really appreciate your time. I just had one more question. I think this would probably inform people, and even myself included, when there's high level of addiction. Obviously it's an addiction problem across the country, but when you see it in certain economic areas, you're like, but drugs are expensive or they cost, so how exactly can. And this is just my ignorance, how does it get to certain areas? They may not have the income that you. On surface. You think that how could drugs actually be getting to that area? You know? Right. I'm just curious. How does that. You know, because it's such a terrible disease. [00:27:21] Speaker B: As it happened. Yeah. Because the guys that mastermind their, you know, let's say it's like there's a map up of where we're going next. They're masterminding where they're gonna go. These are brilliant. I mean, these are CEOs of their own company, right? The dealers. They're brilliant. Yeah. You take that and you put it into something that's legitimate, man, you'll do great. But they're. They're planning strategy where we're gonna go. And they're like, these people will be hungry for what we have to offer, and they'll figure out the money part. They'll figure out how to get it. Whether it means doing without or doing something that you really don't want to do. They're going to figure it out. Because that addiction drives you. Once you're there, it drives you. You are no longer in control of your own life. [00:28:12] Speaker A: It's just. It's mind blowing. And I can't emphasize enough that when I was watching some of your videos, you know, this is one of the most personal things, because every single person has a story that this has hit them at. You're not immune to it. Right. Your zip code and your area code. We all had just. You've seen it, you've experienced it, and you know, it's not. It's evolved from the laugh at the dinner table like we talked about earlier. [00:28:35] Speaker B: Yeah, exactly, exactly. You know, and like my husband, if you looked at, he was a marine and a cop, and, you know, all the things that it's like Mr. Squared Away. You know, but you close the door, and this is what's going on at home. [00:28:48] Speaker A: Right. So I've obviously taken up a lot of your time just out of your busy schedule, like, you know, like, your list of things that you've accomplished. I was just. How did you find the time to do all this? Right. You know, you're helping Olympic teams. You're on all these different boards. You know, you're an international speaker. You're a TED Talk advisor. I mean, a speaker. Excuse me. How can people, when they watch a show, find more about you they don't need? You can Google me, and I'm a speck of dust. Like you have a channel. But how can we find more about Dr. Agrilen Higgins and what. [00:29:17] Speaker B: Rashad, if you do and what you do, that helps. So give yourself a little. [00:29:22] Speaker A: I appreciate it. [00:29:23] Speaker B: I appreciate what you're doing and. And the public appreciates what you're doing because you're having the conversations that otherwise won't be had. [00:29:29] Speaker A: Thank you. [00:29:30] Speaker B: So going to our websites, whether it be wired for addiction.com all spelled out wired for addiction or wired biohealth.com and we started Wired Biohealth because people were coming to us saying, I'm not quite. Quite at the addiction place. [00:29:45] Speaker A: Right. [00:29:45] Speaker B: But I'm not, right? [00:29:47] Speaker A: Absolutely. Absolutely. [00:29:48] Speaker B: Is there other things that we can do? I'm like, absolutely, because that's the perfect place. Like, let's get you before you're not there. Right. Let's change it. The course is easier to change. So go to the websites. Wired for addiction.com Wired biohealth.com, reach out on there. Schedule that consultation. And just. Just as open as you and I are having this conversation, Rashad, just share what's going on, because if we don't know, we can't help. But if we do, we can help. [00:30:13] Speaker A: I think, and I say this very respectfully, I appreciate you. And more importantly, I think the. Your Facebook posting as a person is a lot. It's better to reach out to you and the experts in your field than to try to therapy, you know, make yourself, oh, I'm gonna make this Facebook post and fight my addiction. Like, a lot of people try to do that. And you're like, yeah, I don't think. [00:30:30] Speaker B: Yeah, no, there's way too much of that stuff going on. [00:30:33] Speaker A: Yeah, that's. I'm sure you've talked about that at length. You know, I can only imagine so. But I want to thank you so much for your time. It's been an honor and pleasure unless you have something else that you wanted to discuss. [00:30:45] Speaker B: No, that's absolutely great, Rashad. And like I said, I thank you for what you're doing, having these conversations, not afraid to have them. So that's great. Thank you for what you're doing. [00:30:53] Speaker A: I salute you for all your great work and I look forward to any follow up conversations we can have. Thank you so much. [00:30:58] Speaker B: Doctor Sounds great, Rashad. Thank you. [00:31:00] Speaker A: Bye. [00:31:00] Speaker B: Bye. SA.