Sabrina Trobak

[00:00:00] Speaker A: Foreign. Welcome back everyone to the Tron podcast, the Randomness of Nothing. This is your host, Rashad Woods. Today I have a very special guest today. Author, entrepreneur, small, small business owner as well as counselor and assist people through large varieties of life because life happens from our neighbor to the north. Sabrina Trach. How are you? [00:00:40] Speaker B: Hi. It's nice to be here. Thanks for having me. [00:00:42] Speaker A: I really appreciate you. You know, you have such a interesting career path trajectory. You've done worked in schools which eventually led you to holistic work as well as teaching, helping people through anxiety stages of life. Because ultimately we realize sometimes that we're actually having self destructive habits and we don't even know it. And you've noticed that and worked on that throughout your career as well as an author. So please tell me about your background. [00:01:05] Speaker B: Sure. So I was a teacher for 20 years. I worked in all three school divisions. So in Canada we have elementary, junior high and high school. I worked in everything from kindergarten prep all the way up to grade 11 sciences. I was mostly though a learning assistant teacher working in smaller groups with kids that were struggling academically. Math, English, reading, behavior of, you know, organization, different kinds of things. And one of the things that was very, very prevalent throughout was they all struggled with confidence. They're struggling with reading or math or behavior, they don't fit the norm of what's out there. And so their confidence can be impacted pretty significantly. Towards the end of my teaching career, I decided to go into counseling to see if I could help more at that kind of confidence level and started working with with kids counseling perspective. And then I went to a workshop on suicide that was looking at suicide through that perspective of that core belief. Not good enough, not important, not valued. [00:02:08] Speaker A: Right. [00:02:09] Speaker B: At the end of the three day workshop I just thought this is what I need to do. So I talked to Tony Martens, the presenter, and we went back and forth for about a year, but he agreed to teach me his model of therapy. At which point I quit my teaching and started my own private practice in my own counseling agency. That was back in 2010. And within six months I had a waiting list. I've had a waiting list ever since, sometimes up to, you know, two year waiting list. So I hate, yeah, I hate having to turn people away. So I decided to write a book to be able to provide a resource for people who can't access counseling for whatever reason. [00:02:49] Speaker A: So my question is, since you have such a big waiting list, are there other people who work with you, other registered counselors, or is you just a solo Practice. [00:02:55] Speaker B: Well, I've been through both. So when I started up, I was solo, but my waiting list definitely said I could use more counselors. So I had a staff with me for a while. But my passion is working with clients. When you have a staff, you have to spend more time managing managing staff, managing staff's clients. And it just wasn't the same. It wasn't as fulfilling for me. And I'm 57. I thought, you know what? I'm going to do what I want to do. [00:03:22] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. [00:03:22] Speaker B: So after Covid, I went back to my own private practice with. It's just little old me now. For sure. [00:03:28] Speaker A: For sure. Here's, you know, because I think. And maybe this, you know, my wife's Canadian, so I kind of have a little bit of Canadian connection, but not west coast Canadian. Right. So do you find that just in general, that it's been more acceptable when it comes to people actually seeking counseling for. For things as opposed to. I mean, I'm 42 and it was the old adage of put a band aid on it. Right. So do you find that as the years have passed, that, hey, I didn't do this when I was younger because for whatever reasons I internalized this versus now, like, boy, this is a lot of pent up years, maybe even decades that I'm very glad that I can finally go because it was a little bit, quote, unquote, shame to have to seek outside services. [00:04:08] Speaker B: Yeah. You know, I think there's an. There's been a bit of an interesting shift that has happened even just since I've been in practice in 2010. Know, when I came into counseling, women were pretty okay to come to counseling. And now it's. It's almost like something that you can count, that you can say, well, I have a counselor. It's almost a form of pride for women. For men. Yeah. Yeah. For men, there's been a bit of a different shift. When I first started my practice, I didn't see hardly any men. I was lucky if I had maybe 20% men in my counseling, of course. And of those 20%, they were usually being drug in by their wife. They wouldn't park in front of my building. They'd park a couple blocks away because they didn't want to be seen. They wouldn't sit in my waiting room. They would. I'd have to text them and say, you can come in. And they'd come up through the back door with their hoodies on. [00:04:55] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:04:56] Speaker B: But usually within about two or three sessions, they were like, give me Your card. I got to tell all my buddies about this, right? So it's that stigma that they had to break through. Once they broke through it, they realized, wow, this is amazing. [00:05:08] Speaker A: Absolutely. [00:05:09] Speaker B: Now, in my practice, I'm pretty much 50, 50 men and women, and I present workshops for my community. I do free workshops for my community. And when I first started, I was lucky if I'd get one or two men there. Now, again, we're up to probably anywhere from 35 to 60% of the people that come to my workshops are men as well. So we're seeing a real shift where men are going, okay, I don't want to just be the workhorse. I. I got stuff. I need to figure things out. I don't feel content. I'm not happy. I want to work on me. So I think that's a great shift for sure. Right? [00:05:44] Speaker A: And it's, you know, because typically, you know, obviously, me being a guy, I think the thing about it is, too, is like, hey, I'm just gonna work out. Hey, I'll just cut the grass, right? Or more. Or for lack of better term, I've clean. Use clean language. I'm just gonna STF you, right? I'm just gonna shut down and just sit, and everything eventually will be okay. And I'm transitioning when I say this because I think in your field, you've probably seen a correlation from people who shut down to what could be criminal or destructive behavior. Right. There's a very thin line between, you know, people who have anxiety and. Versus somebody who's in jail or did something very violent towards a spouse or their loved ones or a total stranger, for that matter. Did you see correlations in that throughout your field of work? [00:06:24] Speaker B: You know, I think every. Everyone who pushes emotion down, which is all of us, has unhealthy coping strategies. That's what an unhealthy coping strategy is, is it's used to shut down our emotions. So if it's done to the extreme, it's more unhealthy. So even, like you said, like, you know, mowing the lawn and, you know, I can keep myself busy and work all the time, and then I'm not spending any time with my family. I'm not connecting. I feel taken advantage of. No one appreciates all that I'm doing, but I'm kind of doing it to myself. But when I'm doing those things, I don't have to feel my emotion. So we see that with things like alcohol, drugs, anger, domestic violence as well. Right? Where it just intensifies but all of that is really about, I'm hurting and I don't know how to deal with it. And so I just push it down, push it down, push it down, push it down till it gets to the point that I can't cope anymore. And then I kind of explode anger or implode, go out and get really drunk, use a bunch of drugs, watch a bunch of pornography, gamble, whatever it is. Kind of pushes everything back down. I feel okay again. But then that cycle starts again because we haven't really dealt with any emotion. And in fact, we've added more because after we do those things, we feel shame, guilt, regret, betrayal, disconnected, all those other emotions as well. [00:07:42] Speaker A: Right. And I thought what was interesting was when I was listening to one of your episodes which you were talking about, it could be something as simple as reading a book. And you're like, reading book? What are you talking about? And then you're like, well, if you're staying up till 4 o' clock in the morning, and then you become immersed in the characters, right? And it's almost like that Twilight Zone episode where Burgess Meredith got stuck in the bank, right? And then, you know, the apocalypse happened, but. And he's, you know, he's the teller, but all that mattered was the books around him. Right. And we all have seen how it ended, where his glasses broke at the end. But, like, I was reading a book she's talking about, and then I was like, oh, my goodness, it didn't even occur to me. Right. [00:08:17] Speaker B: Yeah. A lot of people focus on the strategy and say, oh, that's unhealthy, that's healthy. It's not true. It's how you use it. Exercise. If I'm working out for, you know, hour, couple hours, you know, several days a week, probably a healthy coping strategy. But if I'm exercising all the time, I'm depleting my calories, I'm choosing exercise over my family, then it's unhealthy. So we need to look past the actual coping strategy and look at how am I using it. Is it helping me? Is it making me more productive in my life, feel more content, help me sort through and deal with my emotions, then it's probably a healthy coping strategy. If I'm using it to escape and avoid. Yeah, escape and avoid emotions, it's likely more unhealthy. [00:09:02] Speaker A: That makes sense. [00:09:03] Speaker B: Healthy coping strategies. Give us a break. But it's not an escape. [00:09:06] Speaker A: Do you tell people then to start putting time limits on the amount of time that they spend on a certain activity to Give a break. Is that how you, when you, when you break down a session with people. [00:09:15] Speaker B: You know that it sounds logical, but no. If I told you to stop whatever it is, don't do it as much, would you listen to me? No, probably not. [00:09:25] Speaker A: Probably not. [00:09:25] Speaker B: Right. We always go for it is at a deeper level. [00:09:29] Speaker A: Okay. [00:09:30] Speaker B: Why, what's. Why did you spend four hours gambling last night online when you haven't gambled in three weeks? Okay, what's going on? [00:09:38] Speaker A: Makes sense. [00:09:39] Speaker B: Let's use this as a bit of a cue. Then what we do is we go through and look at what's the last week been like. Tell me all the things that have happened in the last week. And so they say, well, you know, my furnace broke down. It's going to cost me $7,000 to get it fixed. My child's report card came back and she's really struggling, and I don't know what to do to help her. [00:09:58] Speaker A: Right. [00:09:58] Speaker B: Our dog got out of the yard and I have to fix the fence. My wife's pissed off at me because she told me to fix the fence six weeks ago, and I didn't do it. All these things. So we say, okay, those are a lot of events. But that's not what's creating your stress or your need to go and gamble. It's the emotions connect to it. So then we go back and look at each event. What emotions did that create? So the furnace. We go through, I give them a list of emotions. They write all the emotions they feel about the furnace, about their daughter, about the dog getting out, about their wife. Then we go back again and say which core belief is being triggered. Not good enough. Not important. Not valued. They go through that process again. After they go through that, they've sorted through those emotions, they feel a lot better. That emotion has been suppressed. Now they're not going to be spending four hours gambling. So we use those things as cues to help us figure out what's going on, rather than just whack the behavior. [00:10:56] Speaker A: So it's not just good enough to say, well, you spent five hours on this week. We're going to decrease it to two hours. And then make sure that you feel better, so to speak, because. [00:11:04] Speaker B: Right. [00:11:04] Speaker A: That's, you know, it. I, I, you know, that makes a lot of sense too, because until you actually get to the root cause of the, of what's causing you to feel that way, reducing the activity level itself is not really going to actually get to what could solve something for somebody. [00:11:18] Speaker B: Right. The, the behavior is just the symptoms. We have to figure out what's feeding that behavior. One of the things this model of therapy says is everything we do, we do for a reason. If I can understand the reason, then I can change the behavior. But if I don't understand the reason, the chance of long term change is going to be very limited. [00:11:37] Speaker A: Got it, Got it. So you obviously, you worked with kids when you started in school and you worked yourself all the way up to, looks like the vice principal level. Principal level. Did you see people who had characteristics and behaviors as young children that carried over to adulthood? I'm not obviously, you know, I'm not looking to spread anybody's information. But did you see, hey, I have a feeling this is what, even if you weren't a counselor, you knew, like, this is what I'm likely going to see in the future with this person. That kind of correlated to your current practices, for sure. [00:12:06] Speaker B: You know, parents normalize behavior. And so if I have a, you know, a parent who is, you know, drinking, not even in excess, but let's say drinking, I don't know, two to six or eight beer a night, there's a really high chance that their children are going to use alcohol as a way to kind of numb, to feel better, to de stress. Because that's likely what the parents said a lot. Right. So now in junior high, they're starting to drink. Am I surprised? No, not at all. Right. Chances that if that becomes a normal practice of behavior, they're using alcohol to suppress emotion, they're going to continue to use that. [00:12:48] Speaker A: Correct. [00:12:48] Speaker B: And so when they're 20, 30, 40, that pattern of behavior continues. Right. We go to what we know. If it works, I ain't gonna change it. Why bother? There's no point. I'm just going to keep using that same behavior. If for whatever reason it doesn't work, I drink alcohol and it makes me really physically ill, then I'm not going to use it. But I'm still thinking, but I got to find something else to numb this. So maybe it's marijuana. [00:13:13] Speaker A: Right? Right. [00:13:14] Speaker B: Right. Maybe it's gambling, maybe it's porn, maybe it's busyness. Right. It's going to be something to numb. So as parents, it's vital that we're teaching our children how to feel their emotions so they don't have to suppress them. [00:13:28] Speaker A: Absolutely. [00:13:29] Speaker B: But the only way parents can do that is they have to be able to feel their own emotions. [00:13:33] Speaker A: Well, it's funny too, because you know, you know, when you have, when you have kids, it's like, how do you stay Close, but give them distance to grow, right? So you know, it's like that car ride, you know, hey, how was your day going? How was school the other day? Good. And then there's that awkward silence for like 20 seconds because. But you didn't ask the proper question in your mind and say, what, what did you do? To what did you do yesterday? As opposed to how was yesterday? And so, and I had to figure that out as a parent because, or like even something silly to open it up. I would just be like, you know, hey, you look really nice today, you know, and then you can see like the smile like on the side of the face. Because I have three daughters, right? And it's like, okay, I can't just ask this generic good yes or no. Like the yes or no question doesn't work. [00:14:20] Speaker B: Right, right. Yeah, exactly. More open ended questions. But again, that's something that has to be learned and taught for parents, but then also learned and taught for kids as well, right? So if I even say to my child, tell me something, tell me your best thing about the day, they can still say, well, I don't know, I mean, that's a go to. Right? And so it's even learning. How do I challenge that? I don't know. So even saying something like, well, okay, maybe you don't know for sure, but what do you think it might be? [00:14:51] Speaker A: Absolutely, absolutely. [00:14:52] Speaker B: Give me two or three of your favorite things from the day. That's easier than one. One is like this pressure that I got to nail it and get it right the first time. Two or three, not no problem, right? So just learning those little tricks to help figure out what, what works with your child is really, really, really important. [00:15:12] Speaker A: Right? And so also too, what helped me and just to pivot slightly, you know, one of my daughters plays violin and it was like, okay, I'm going to pivot towards this conversation because I know that you enjoy doing that and I have a better likelihood of an open ended conversation as opposed to just, hey, how was yesterday? Right? So those little things help, you know, when you, when you tailor it towards something that somebody enjoys a little. [00:15:34] Speaker B: And, and I think as parents, that's really, really important because what often happens is our children end up catering to our needs. What's important for us, what we enjoy, what we think is. Right, what we think they should do. [00:15:49] Speaker A: Right? [00:15:49] Speaker B: How are they building their identity when they're constantly just trying to please us? Right. When I deal with adults, a lot of my clients say, you know, I don't even know who I Am. A lot of my clients actually say I lost who I was. [00:16:02] Speaker A: Right. [00:16:02] Speaker B: I say I, I disagree. I don't think you lost yourself because I don't think you ever found it. You spend your whole life trying to please your mom, please your dad, please your teachers, please your coach, please your siblings, please your friends. You never actually took time and figured out, what, what do I want? [00:16:17] Speaker A: Right. [00:16:17] Speaker B: What do I want to be, what do I want to do? So it's important as parents that we're, we're doing that. We're really focusing on what do you want, what do you need? Right. What's important to you? Doesn't matter what I think, what do you think? Right. But then you got to find boundaries because then we go to the other side where they just have free for all. They're allowed to run wild. So we still need boundaries in there. Of, no, you need to clean your room, set the table, you know, all those kind of chores. No, you can't set, stay out until 4 o' clock in the morning. Right. But that, but also developing those boundaries, that, that's a tough balance to create. For sure. [00:16:53] Speaker A: Of course. I thought what was interesting too, and I never thought about this, was when you said that procrastination is a sign of anxiety. And I think people sometimes correlate procrastination with laziness, you know, but I didn't think that it was actually to correlate a little bit to your book. Not good enough. And the reasons why people don't start things or put things off is actually due to their, you know, anxiety level that they're actually exhibiting. [00:17:16] Speaker B: Right. And you know, another symptom of anxiety is laziness. [00:17:20] Speaker A: Okay. Okay. [00:17:22] Speaker B: They both work the same way. Right. Anxiety is lack of confidence, not believing in myself that I can handle something. [00:17:29] Speaker A: Right. [00:17:30] Speaker B: So what's the chances I'm going to procrastinate and put it off? [00:17:32] Speaker A: Unquestionably. [00:17:33] Speaker B: Really? Really. Right. It's really, really, really high for sure. [00:17:37] Speaker A: Right. [00:17:38] Speaker B: And again, that's where we need to look past the behavior and understand what's going on. So, you know, if you're procrastinating, why am I procrastinating? Well, it's really big. It's really overwhelming. I don't even know where to start. Or, you know, I can hold it over my head and continue to go, oh, I haven't done that yet. I haven't done that yet. I haven't done that yet. I get to reinforce that core belief. Not good enough, not important, not valued. So we need to look at why we're doing what we're doing. Once we do that, then we can figure out strategies, put a plan in place to challenge those things. Then we can move through that behavior. [00:18:13] Speaker A: Got it. [00:18:14] Speaker B: Laziness was. Yeah, laziness was a big one I saw in the schools when I was working in junior high. By the time kids got to junior high, they were already defeated. The kids that were struggling academically. Right. They're already reading two, three levels below grade. They struggle with their written output, often are very smart. They know the information, they just can't get it out. So now they have a choice. They can be lazy and say, I don't care and fail the test, or they can work hard and try but still have that fear of failing the test. They would rather be labeled lazy than stupid. [00:18:48] Speaker A: Right, right, right, right. [00:18:50] Speaker B: So once as a learning assistant. Exactly. So as a learning assistant teacher, my goal was to help them see you. You can study and you can actually not only pass this test, but do really well. You're very smart. You just have trouble getting it out. So we're going to have a scribe who's going to write your answers for you. You don't have to read the questions. You don't have to write the answers down. You just get to talk through the test. [00:19:15] Speaker A: Nice. [00:19:16] Speaker B: They do that one, two, three times. Now all of a sudden they're getting 90%. Guess what? They're not lazy anymore. [00:19:23] Speaker A: Right. [00:19:23] Speaker B: So it was never about lazy. It was what they were doing to cope with the fact that. That they felt defeated and they didn't know how to do the work and get their information out. Tests in school are not written, are not done so that we can get. Knowledge tests are to test my ability to get the knowledge out. [00:19:41] Speaker A: Correct. [00:19:42] Speaker B: For a lot of kids who have attention deficit learning disabilities, tests aren't a real true indication of what's really going on and how much they really know. [00:19:51] Speaker A: Well, that's the thing, right? So, like, I don't. I've always said, you know, particularly as I, you know, as I've gone with my kids, you know, and talked to them whether they did great, good, bad, indifferent, you know, I'm not saying indifferent. Excuse me. Good or bad. Did you try your best? And how did the information get discerned with what you were handling? You know, the 90%, sometimes I think, or above, especially a kid who's a high achiever, when they don't get that, is devastated. Right. But it's not a barometer of how smart you are. We've. I Mean, there's people that have dropped out of high school that have become infinitely successful in life at other things, for sure. And I think it's very important to sit back and say that, that like you said, all that test did was say, were you able to handle this nugget of information and transpose it to the answers that were in front of you. But this is not a barometer of how smart you are as a human being, right? [00:20:39] Speaker B: For sure. For sure. [00:20:40] Speaker A: And so unfortunately, you know, due to school and class sizes, they sometimes can't personalize the learning for each individual kid. Which is why your services are available. [00:20:49] Speaker B: And out there, right? For sure. And yeah, it's challenging, for sure. If you don't fit in that kind of typical framework of, of what, you know, what a student is supposed to look like, it can be more challenging. For sure. [00:21:01] Speaker A: Oh, for sure. So really briefly, let's talk about your book, please. Because I thought not good enough. As soon as I, as soon as I see me, when you see the COVID of that, it's all of a sudden like, my goodness, it's out there for everybody to kind of feel that way. So how did, how did the book come about? And you know the content of it all, please. [00:21:17] Speaker B: So the model of therapy that I practice that was created by Tony Martens, who did that workshop. It's the foundation of it. So it's what I do every day, all day long with my clients is help them better understand their core belief, not good enough. But also not important, not valued. And how that core belief has developed throughout your life. And then what we need to do to challenge and change that core belief to being more good enough. And so in the book, it helps the reader sort through that. So it is a hands on book. So you basically read a small part and then you apply the activity to your own personal experiences. So it really helps you get a better understanding of how your core belief has developed over the years, why it's where it's at. And then it looks at strategies and different things you can do to help you manage that. It talks about anxiety. You know, anxiety and core belief go hand in hand. Anxiety is lack of confidence, not believing in yourself. You can handle things. If your core belief is not good enough, you're going to have more anxiety. So as you challenge and change that core belief, that the anxiety becomes less. As you challenge the anxiety, the core belief, good enough, becomes stronger. Connects anxiety to anger. Anger is a coping strategy we use to suppress other emotions. Anxiety is one of them as well. So it Helps you gain a better understanding of anger. What does your anger look like? And then what can you do to help you challenge those? Looks at emotions teaches you how to figure out how to feel emotions. Emotions are a physiological response to the thoughts we're having. That's it. [00:22:52] Speaker A: Right. [00:22:52] Speaker B: And so if we, most of us, though, don't realize, like, what does sad feel like in your body? Most people go, what, I don't know, tears. And so it runs through where you actually stop and think about, what does it feel like in my body to feel these different emotions? Once you become more aware of what it feels like in your body, then you can start to feel those emotions as well. Um, and then it looks at. It gives you a variety of different strategies you can use to challenge anger, anxiety, get better at feeling emotions and challenging that core belief. Not good enough, not important, not valued. [00:23:24] Speaker A: Well, I have to ask this question. Do you have, like, people who are any, like, in athletics at all that reach out to you? Because, you know, oftentimes you see, like, a sport, right. Where the person clearly couldn't cope with what they were doing athletically? I only ask because while you're talking, I'm a huge boxing and mixed martial arts fan. Right. And you can see when the fighter gets, for lack of better term, very upset. And you're like, either they got hit below an area that wasn't legal or things weren't going their way, and then there's a meltdown that just goes downhill. So do you find people, particularly in. Have you ever had any athletics people in sports who said, I need to cope mentally with better tasks when the emotions of an athletic competition is getting really high? [00:24:06] Speaker B: For sure. So I'm in northern British Columbia. [00:24:08] Speaker A: Yes. [00:24:09] Speaker B: So we have a lot of hockey. And so I do work with a lot of hockey players, male and female. [00:24:15] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:24:16] Speaker B: You know, and often, what kind of happens if we have an athlete who's kind of specializing in one area, their identity kind of gets stuck in that. I'm a hockey player, so I need to be the best I can as a hockey player. If I'm not, if I have a bad game, then I'm across the board. So I'm using my hockey as a way to cover up that core belief. Not good enough, not important, not valued. So as soon as there's a little hole in there, everything can kind of implode. [00:24:43] Speaker A: Right. [00:24:43] Speaker B: So again, we're often going back and really looking at Kate. We get hockey, but let's really look at life in general. Hockey is just one aspect of who you are. Right. And so, you know, I've dealt with very, very successful businessmen who. And women who struggle with that core belief not good enough to look at them. Everyone say, oh, they must be so happy, so wonderful. They've got all the bells, all the whistles, all the things, but it's never enough. They're always trying for more, for more, for more, for more. Why? Because they believe they're not good enough. Once they feel good enough, they can be more comfortable and content with what they have. You know, I've worked with models. Right. [00:25:20] Speaker A: Crazy look perfect. Yes. [00:25:22] Speaker B: They often really struggle with that core belief because they feel the only part of their identity is their outer appearance. [00:25:29] Speaker A: Right. And they have no other value. [00:25:31] Speaker B: Right, exactly. Yeah. Yeah. [00:25:33] Speaker A: That's amazing because, you know, sometimes when you hear, you know, somebody, you know, had successful or perceived to be very successful has an insecure. I don't say insecurity, but has anxiety or something like that, people kind of roll their eyes. Like there's a group of people out there say, well, if I was in your position or your shoes, I wouldn't be insecure about anything. Right. And you're like that. That's not a correlation of what that person truly could be going. [00:25:55] Speaker B: Right. You know, I. I think anyone can say that about anyone else, but until you're actually in their shoes, you don't know what they went through, what their experiences are. You know, even people who didn't experience a lot of trauma, we were not taught how to feel our emotions. If I'm holding all my emotions in for years and years, for decades, it is going to have an impact on my belief in my ability to handle little things. [00:26:20] Speaker A: Yes. [00:26:21] Speaker B: If I'm full up with emotion and something small happens, like my. The E on my fuel gauge comes up on my vehicle and it can. All of a sudden, it's this big, huge, massive deal. [00:26:33] Speaker A: Yep. [00:26:33] Speaker B: And so even the most successful people often have never been taught how to feel their emotions and sort through their emotions. So that core belief is going to be there to some degree. It can vary in degrees, for sure, but it's likely. It's often is a fuel. Right. If I make a million dollars, then I'll be good enough. Okay, well now, if I make $5 million, then I'll be good enough. Right. And it just keeps going and going because it's never about that goal. As long as you're looking out here, you're never going to find it. [00:27:03] Speaker A: Absolutely. [00:27:03] Speaker B: You got to look in here. [00:27:05] Speaker A: Right, Right. And that's, you know, and I Think that that's one of the reasons that appealed so much to me when we got a chance to do this episode. Right. Because I think a lot of times success and happiness is a very visual thing. Even when you go on Instagram and you see people, oh, I'm living my best life, right? Like, social media pressures, it's like, listen, man, you gotta. You gotta find a way to make sure that there's something internal that's happened with you and find your trigger points and things like that. I'm sure there's a lot more that we could go deeper into that. But, you know, I've certainly been educated a lot more just listening to you and the approach that you take. [00:27:36] Speaker B: Good. [00:27:36] Speaker A: Where, where can people find you? So I always ask everybody this, like, you know, you don't need me. You know, you're very successful. Where can people find Sabrina Troach and her. Her authorship and her work? [00:27:46] Speaker B: Right. So my book is available on Amazon, but I also have a website, trobacholistic.org on my website, there's a page for, for finding my book. It also has links to all of my social media. I am on LinkedIn, YouTube, Instagram, and TikTok and Facebook. I also have a blog on my page. And so the blog offers a variety of different topics. Mental health kind of topics. Again, people with anxiety often struggle more with reading. So they're short. They're two to four minutes long. That was one of the challenges in writing the book is how do I write a book for people who don't like to read? Right, right. So the book is written in a larger font. It's written at about a grade 6, 7 reading level, so it doesn't have a ton of big words. And it's broken up into very small sections. It's got lots of diagrams, lots of, lots of charts to help break it down up. So you don't have to read as much on there as well. So I have a blog that does that as well. And then on my website, I also have a page that has the podcast interviews that I've done as well. [00:28:49] Speaker A: Well, that's fantastic. Well, I can tell you that I'm absolutely humbled that you carved out a little bit of time, you know, particularly since you're on a different time zone and you made some early time available. And I wish nothing but the best of your continued success. And more importantly, thank you for all the lives you have impact. [00:29:04] Speaker B: Thanks for having me. It was nice chatting with you today. [00:29:06] Speaker A: It's been an absolute pleasure. Thank you so much for being on the Tron podcast, Sam.