Avi Maderer

[00:00:00] Speaker A: Welcome back listeners to the Tron podcast, the Randomness of Nothing. This is your host, Rashad Woods. Today I have a very special guest on a topic that's very important, particularly in this new era here. He's an expert on AI and more importantly, he wants people to find their purpose once the transition takes place to artificial intelligence, while still maintaining the human element. Mr. Avi Madderer, thank you very much, sir. [00:00:20] Speaker B: Thank you, Rashad. It's a, it's a pleasure and an honor. I appreciate the time. [00:00:23] Speaker A: Well, thank you. You know, I gotta be honest. First of all, thank you for saying that. You listen to the, the episodes that I've had and you know, you are very in tune. Artificial intelligence in the transition that's taking place right now. And obviously people are, you know, it's scary for people, it's exciting for others. How did you get into this mold of your career to really get into this field in the first place? [00:00:44] Speaker B: Okay, so I came back into the tech world or I'll start differently. I started about 30 years ago in tech, the, you know, the dot com boom in the 2000s pre 2000s, 1900 and 90s and left tech and spent a lot of time in venture capital and investments, really meeting up between investors and startups in different technologies. I was more in prevent event production and such and got back into technology really during COVID because events weren't happening and you know, I wanted to keep busy and purposeful and make a living. [00:01:22] Speaker C: Right. [00:01:23] Speaker B: So I, so I got back into technology and studied back in with data analysis and started learning about bias mitigation and deep, deep learning. [00:01:37] Speaker A: Yes. [00:01:38] Speaker B: Large language models, et cetera. [00:01:40] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:01:40] Speaker B: And then about, I'd say I'm a late comer to it because in November of 23 is when ChatGPT came out to the public in a big way. And then I jumped in and realized partially from a personal marketing point of view and partially from just the speed of how fast this thing is being taken up by the world. [00:02:00] Speaker C: Right. [00:02:01] Speaker B: Needed to find a niche marketing wise. So then I got into what people would call human in the loop, which is the need for not to trust the AI as much as we like to and as professional and as accurate as it might sound, and it's getting better and better all the time, but started to see that there's really a need to be critical of it and to make sure that, you know, we don't put out whether it's mission critical work or not mission critical work, make sure that we put out truth and it can't always be reliable. I was putting together a piece, I don't know, a couple months ago, and I was working with one of the tools that I use, it's Claude. They're all similar and sort of racing against each other. Claude, Chachi Block, et cetera. [00:02:42] Speaker C: Right. [00:02:42] Speaker B: And I asked for, in part of the writing, I like to use stories. Stories, you know, Cause those, those are engaging, et cetera. So I asked for a story about whatever the topic was. And it gave me this beautiful story of President Kennedy going to Nassau on a tour and ask, stopping and asking, you know, one of the custodians, what do you do here? I'm sending a man to the moon, was his answer. And that was like, you know, teamwork. And he's right into it. And, and, you know, he's all part of the team. And then I asked Quad or Chad or whoever I was using said, okay, well, so give me the source. Is that, you know, no, it's not. I just made it up. It sounded good. So beautiful. Made it up. And it is part of the folklore. It is a story that is told, but it's, it's not true. Not necessarily true. So in any case, I started moving into that and then I started to realize that as I was studying more about this, this very fast moving world is that a lot of people have their meaning in the type of work that they do. [00:03:37] Speaker C: Right. [00:03:38] Speaker B: Whether it's a doctor, a radiologist, a gardener, whatever it is. [00:03:42] Speaker D: Right. [00:03:43] Speaker B: Even a podcaster. You know, I mean, I'll be honest, I do a lot of writing, but a lot of it is done with AI and then I go back and forth, right. And then I, because I, not only from ethical point of view, just because I want it to be my voice, so I'll go back and forth in the conversation with it. But the, the, the reality is, whatever, the timeline is going to be somewhere between two and 10 years. [00:04:04] Speaker A: Correct. [00:04:05] Speaker B: There's going to be this huge amount of automation and a lot of besides, you know, the, the job displacement and the economics and whether we get into universal basic income and things like that. What is the reason that people are going to have to get up in the morning? Right. Their purpose was the podcast. We could, you know, mimic our voice into the AI and we don't even have to record it. [00:04:29] Speaker D: Right. [00:04:29] Speaker B: Or the radiologist. [00:04:31] Speaker D: Right. [00:04:31] Speaker B: Or, you know, now you have to be within, you know, that top 10 percentile of radiology, literally to have a job. [00:04:37] Speaker A: Exactly. [00:04:38] Speaker B: Or exactly. [00:04:39] Speaker C: Right. [00:04:39] Speaker B: You know, we look at. And people find purpose in, in, you know, Even if they're not to, you know, judge any level of occupation. But people who are waiters at a restaurant, they like serving people and they're doing it, some of them when you're, you know, to make a living, whatever, but some of them really enjoy the engagement with the customer, etc. Etc. But now we're going to have, there are already automated orders that are, you know, delivering to the floor. So, so then I got into this idea of human purpose and how do we address that as a society? The biggest problem that I believe we're facing is the speed. Because in past industrial revolutions we had some time, you know, the telegraph operators had some time to learn how to use the phone switches. [00:05:23] Speaker A: Yes. [00:05:23] Speaker B: The train operators or the cars from horses, et cetera, et cetera. There was tens of years. [00:05:29] Speaker C: Right. [00:05:30] Speaker A: We literally sit like a top break. Have you found that typically what happens is at businesses go all in because, you know, there's trends that happen and then next thing you know they found out that they needed to pull back respectively. And I only asked this because, you know, like the grocery checkout line, for example, every, every grocer went all in on automated checkout and then as they found out how horrible of a customer service. We've all been there where you're just like, this machine doesn't read the barcode or you need to delete an item and then suddenly it turns what could have been a five minute transaction turns into a smorgasbord of a 20 minute situation. You're waiting to flag the person down, you know, so did you find out that it's sometimes companies are pulling back and there's an overcorrection into this field, so to speak. [00:06:15] Speaker B: Yes, yes, for sure. People are, I haven't seen anyone that's. Other than the solopreneur, which I just have casual conversations with. But actual businesses aren't diving full in to completely automate. There are like larger law firms, larger accounting firms that have dedicated teams, dedicated IT people, tech people that are studying and going to be working in the transition gradually and in a, in a risk averse way. [00:06:41] Speaker C: Right, right. [00:06:42] Speaker B: Small businesses are, are dabbling from, from the ones that I've been speaking with and no one's like jumping right in unless again, you know, it's, it's some solopreneur or a couple of guys sitting in a cafe and you know, making a million dollars already. [00:06:54] Speaker C: Right, right, right, right. [00:06:55] Speaker B: But otherwise businesses are going slow. I believe this is just a philosophy. I believe that in the next couple years there won't be that much luxury of waiting. People might need to go a lot faster in. But now is a very, very good time to just, just run with it. [00:07:13] Speaker A: Absolutely. [00:07:13] Speaker B: Trial and error, really. It's very easy software to learn. It's not like the old software where you have to learn, you know, take a course and whatever. You go into the AI and just ask, what do I do? How do I do this? And it tells you, right, right now, if you take the time to read for a couple of minutes, you'll be fine. [00:07:28] Speaker A: And I think, you know, it's helped me even like, you know, when I, when I want to write, like, I still have to be very original and I still have to have compelling content. But it does help formulate questions. When you have questions to ask, how do I structure a question in a proper manner so I still have to do the work, but it can get it laid out in a, in a paragraph in an annotated manner that I wasn't. And then it could take a minute. It's time consuming, right? And you're just like, okay, well I can do this in five minutes. And it really does benefit. So one of the things I was curious about when you said earlier was like, when you said people like the Industrial Revolution, I thought that was funny, right? Because then you had the Luddits that were in England when the textile workers didn't want to. They were burning the machines and breaking the machines because they no longer, the machines were making textiles much quicker than they were. Do you find it across various industries? You know, is does it differ per industry of the use of AI? Not even size and scope of business. Do you find out like, hey, this could work in this industry, but this industry is slower to catch on. [00:08:26] Speaker B: From what I see, the every industry is somehow enabled by AI, right? What I'll say is if we take construction, building design, right, you're going to have, you have to have the plumber who's going to crawl under the sink and fix the leak for now, of course. And I think that'll take a very long time until that's changed. But AI can 3D print a house. AI can, can do the CAD design of the wiring and the plumbing and everything else and, and, you know, the efficiencies of energy and insulation and everything else, you know, in minutes, really. So, so I think every industry is certainly affected, but different parts of the industries are different if anywhere. That besides those, those kind of physical things like the plumber under the sink, the opportunity for us humans is the interpersonal relationship Right, right. It's likely, for example, that people are going to, we're all going to get used to. And they're a lot better the customer service online, you know, navigation through press 1 for this and all that. Or we just chat bot with, with, with the machine. And there will be a premium, you know what you want to speak to a real human, pay X and people will be willing to pay X and it'll be a premium service. [00:09:38] Speaker A: That's true. It's kind of funny. It's. Yeah, I guess that makes more sense. And a lot of people may want to pay the buck 50 just to be able to get expedited services, whatever. Yeah, absolutely. For sure. So I thought it was interesting when I was obviously looking up what you offer in your consulting, your services as well to your assisting businesses and you also help people find purpose in, in this new age of the second age of the industrial revolution. And it says purpose, you do, people are supposed to do what you call a purpose, audit human AI collaboration and then building a meaningful, meaningful portfolio. Can you go in further details about that? [00:10:10] Speaker B: Sure. So, you know, I'd like to, I'd like to maybe take a parallel. There's been over the last, I mean, it's probably longer than I know, but let's call it five years or so. Really, whatever people think, you know, good or bad, there has been a very big movement and awareness of dei. [00:10:28] Speaker D: Right. [00:10:28] Speaker B: Diversity, inclusion and equity. Right. Equitability and inclusion. [00:10:32] Speaker A: Right. Correct. [00:10:33] Speaker B: So corporations and businesses and societies and cultures all had this, and still have this push towards working towards, you know, common ground, Acceptance, tolerance. I don't like the word tolerance because it sounds like, you know, I don't like you, but I'll tolerate it. [00:10:51] Speaker D: Right? [00:10:51] Speaker A: Correct. [00:10:52] Speaker B: But the, the difference here is that was outward and what's coming up now is inward. What's my place in society? What's my place in the world? And I think that that whole movement of DEI might actually be a great primer for society and for, for organizations to help people find their purpose. [00:11:11] Speaker D: Right. [00:11:11] Speaker B: We're going to have people whose jobs and the biggest expectation. Getting back to what you were asking about regarding businesses and if they're implementing already, is the immediate expectation of companies is not to let people off, but rather to expect higher productivity. [00:11:28] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:11:29] Speaker D: Right. [00:11:29] Speaker B: Now then you get into a question. Well, how much stuff do we need in the world? [00:11:32] Speaker D: Right. [00:11:33] Speaker B: So if it's, you know, solving medical problems, solving poverty, solving climate issues, et cetera, et cetera, then for sure let's be as productive as Possible. Right, but how many more, how many iPhones do you need? I don't know how many new buttons you need on your iPhone or whatever. [00:11:46] Speaker C: Right. [00:11:47] Speaker B: I mean, how many gadgets, etc. Etc. So, so with that, the core to finding people's purpose is really to go deep down and find out what it is that they enjoy, what it is that energizes them, what it is that, that attract, what, what are they attracted to, what types of problems do they like to solve. And then once they create that inventory, getting to your question, once they create that inventory, then they can work further on their own or with someone like myself, et cetera, and match those to the skills that they have already, to the environment that they're already working in or applying to. It could also be just societally because we're getting to now the big wave in the curve of the baby boom. There's a lot of older people coming in that are going to need care and there might be that premium situation where you're going to have the robots providing the companionship for the elders and there might be the younger people. [00:12:41] Speaker C: Right, right. [00:12:43] Speaker B: Touching on, on universal basic income. I don't know if you know, people are generally aware of that, but it could possibly be that if there are large layoffs from, from income, then government, however that's taxed and it's a whole big problem. [00:12:58] Speaker D: Right? [00:12:59] Speaker B: But if people are given a universal basic income, then they have time in their hands. And the models that people are talking about from universal basic income, UBI is not that you're going to get. You know, if someone is making $100,000 a year, they're not going to get $100,000 of, of UBI, right. They're going to get whatever, 20, 30, 50. [00:13:20] Speaker D: Right. [00:13:21] Speaker B: And they're still going to need to make more. So there might be like conditional ubi. Okay, if you contribute to society in a certain way, a little bit socialist maybe, but if you contribute to society in a certain way, then you get, you know, x more. [00:13:35] Speaker C: Right. [00:13:35] Speaker B: That kind of thing. But the important foundation of, of that is finding within yourself what is that inventory? What is that list of things that you're attracted to energy wise, what are you compelled towards, what are you good at, et cetera. And then those things will help you move towards the, the, the purposeful occupation or tasks that you take on from day to day. [00:13:58] Speaker A: What respons think that these companies that are implementing these AI have to their employees to either say, hey, these are the skills you're going to need. This is the implementation because it can be a situation where obviously you consult and you do speaking and you keep people engaged and this is really your level of expertise. How is the response from employees and. [00:14:21] Speaker B: Management to employees, the management and the companies, corporations, organizations, all the ones that I have worked with all have a, a sense of an ethical, moral responsibility towards their employees. They're all encouraging, just going in and you know, using the AI and doing it. They don't, people don't. Companies are doing a little bit of training around it, but it's, it's not that critical on the technical level. But there are companies that are, are giving courses and education on critical thinking, on bias mitigation, on fact checking, etc. So that for sure, but they feel a responsibility towards those employees because this is a big change and they do want to keep within the organization those people that are, you know, they want to retain right just, they don't want to make it a free for all and say, you know, may the best person win. [00:15:14] Speaker A: And you see, and you know, I mean, every article now pops up when you're, whether you're in Google or you know, Yahoo News, Bloomberg, etc. And it says, you know, that a lot of these office roles, a lot of these clerical duties like, you know, don't need, they don't need the people. They, you know, people can say, obviously there's positives to it, but there is, you know, if you needed an intern to quote unquote, make copies and make spreadsheets and make files, well, now you really like, I'm not gonna say you don't, but there's an expense from a company that they simply don't have to administer in their payroll. It's also, does it, is there a trickle down too from the universities and the college and the high school level to say you're going to need to transition to these level of careers and pivot to this because the copywriter, so to speak, is not really there or the errand runner for making Excel spreadsheets may not be there because this person can just pay a subscription fee to an automated AI service and it can do it for them. [00:16:09] Speaker D: Right. [00:16:09] Speaker B: So, so the, and I'll add a little bit of a nuance to that as well. Another challenge to that is you're basically addressing entry level positions. [00:16:18] Speaker A: Yes, yes. [00:16:19] Speaker B: And you have people that have 5, 10, 20 years experience and those 5, 10, 20 year experience people are going to be for the companies that last longer are going to be leaving at some point and there's nobody coming up through the pipeline, gaining that experience, right? So, so that's also part of the problem, right? It's not just, well, we don't need you. So the businesses are working more towards the hybrid office where you're going to have a manager. And that manager could be a young guy, right? It could be, you know, someone that's, that's, you know, just coming in as entry level, but. [00:16:53] Speaker A: Correct. [00:16:53] Speaker B: First of all, they were born with a, you know, with a cell phone or a smartphone in their hands already. [00:16:57] Speaker A: That's all they know. [00:16:58] Speaker B: You know, they're flying, so they're already fine, Right. They're picking up the AI, you know, just as quick as anyone in any case. They just don't have the life experience. Right. And then that gets back to that idea of, of basically humanistic education, right? It's, it's touches on, on things like, like literacy, for example, right. Where if you have literacy, when I ask people what, what does literacy mean? They'll say reading and writing. [00:17:24] Speaker D: Right? [00:17:25] Speaker B: But I actually, I noted this down here. There's a UNESCO, it's a very good definition of what literacy is, according to UNESCO. So here's the, the Miriam Webster. The ability to read and write, right. Very straightforward. Oxford Dictionary says pretty much the same thing, right. But UNESCO came up with a definition in one of their missions to promote motoristry around the world. The ability to identify, understand, interpret, create, communicate and compute using printed and written material associated with varying contexts. So it's the ability to do something with what you've read. [00:17:55] Speaker C: Right? Right. [00:17:56] Speaker B: So that's where the companies are now investing more in, especially with all this prepared information that we have. [00:18:04] Speaker A: Don't just take it at face value, right? [00:18:06] Speaker B: Well, not only not taking face value, excuse me, being creative with what you're being presented with. [00:18:11] Speaker C: Right. [00:18:13] Speaker B: So that's the direction that companies are taking is really, it's to again, educate and internalize and deepen the human aspect of what their employees can do. And that's what they can do with the incoming entry level candidates coming in. [00:18:29] Speaker A: Be more well rounded and have, don't just obviously, hey, I spit this out and I'm presenting this report. Did you analyze it? Did you fact check it? Is it presentable? Or are you just going to quote, unquote, take the easy way out and just basically speak it and then spit it back out to you? [00:18:43] Speaker C: Right? [00:18:43] Speaker B: Or even yes, and just thinking off the cuff here, one way to, to address that because they don't have that 5, 10, 20 years experience of the person that's been working the Excel sheet. [00:18:54] Speaker D: Right. [00:18:54] Speaker B: Or, or, or the journalist or whatever it is, is just know and remember almost on a checklist to go into Chad or Claude or whoever and say, play the other role. What am I missing here? [00:19:07] Speaker A: Absolutely right. [00:19:09] Speaker B: If you're a lawyer going into litigation, what's the other side going to throw at me? [00:19:13] Speaker A: Yeah, that makes a lot of sense too. [00:19:15] Speaker B: It's not only the fact checking, it's daring to, you know, it's, it's that DEI thing. Tell me about the other side. Let's learn about what the other perspective is. [00:19:24] Speaker A: So I also thought it was very interesting. You said you have, I was reading, you said it's a bridge generation transition from human dominance to AI collaboration, which kind of leads into the same thing. So obviously people have this, you know, Terminator 2 thought in their head. We all seen the movies, we've all seen Irobot and all these things where suddenly, you know, the Jetsons kind of thing where the maids do it, you know, the robots doing everything for you and I, obviously we're a very far, I would like to think, from that particular era. Where do you, what, what's a typical day like you with a client when you're introducing all of these new things and you've kept your skills up to par and you say this is going to be best tailor made for this specific business or this company or this solopreneur. Where do you, how do you, how do you, how do you have that conversation with people? [00:20:06] Speaker B: Okay, so I think you asked two questions. One, you, you asked for clarity on what the bridge generation is. [00:20:12] Speaker A: Yes. [00:20:12] Speaker D: Right. [00:20:12] Speaker B: And then how do we handle within the company? So the bridge generation is basically us. We're the ones that have, you know, I think you're younger than I, but you know, I've got 30, 40 years of work experience. [00:20:22] Speaker C: Right, right, right. [00:20:23] Speaker B: And life experience and et cetera. And the people that are, you know, the 20 year olds. [00:20:29] Speaker D: Right. [00:20:29] Speaker B: They don't have that life experience. And we're the ones that can inform and teach that younger generation how to have that humanistic perspective and insight and empathy, etc. Right. And how to approach the AI as not just a, an automated tool that just does the work for us. Right, right. Because if we're going to move forward as, as, as civilization, really. And that's, that's kind of a nuance that I've been playing with as well. This isn't an industrial revolution, this is a societal, cultural civilization revolution. [00:21:02] Speaker C: Right. [00:21:03] Speaker B: Because it's happening so fast. [00:21:04] Speaker C: Right, right. [00:21:05] Speaker B: So, and then as far as companies are concerned or you know, one on one and solo practitioners, whoever I'm working with, it's basically the same idea. Let's remember that we're in control. [00:21:17] Speaker D: Right. [00:21:18] Speaker B: We are the ones that dictate to the AI what we want and we can accept or not accept what we want. And probably one of the most, most important things that, that we can do as, as, as humans is to keep learning. [00:21:33] Speaker D: Right. [00:21:33] Speaker B: There's this, there's a concept that's, that's very popular now calling, called lifelong learning. [00:21:39] Speaker A: Absolutely. [00:21:39] Speaker B: And you just keep, in technology, in history and society, in civics is so important today. All these things not only enrich us as human beings, but mitigate the threat of AI or our own personal perhaps inclination to accept AI and what it delivers to us at face value. [00:22:00] Speaker A: Correct. I think it's important too because even like this podcast. Right. So there's nothing that I could have AI that could have allowed me to have this conversation with you. [00:22:08] Speaker C: Right. [00:22:09] Speaker A: And you're obviously an expert in this field and you, you know, you, we didn't talk much about yet your public speaking, your consulting and I certainly want to just dive into that for a minute. But I still have to ask you these questions. I still have to have engaging content. It doesn't substitute me talking to you and having these conversations. And to your point, that's how you have that human connection and that deeper meaning and be able to navigate. It's like a teenager who never actually sits. They text all the time, but they can't hold a five minute conversation, so to speak. There's no substitute for that. [00:22:40] Speaker C: Right. [00:22:41] Speaker A: So it does, it certainly helps. And so thank you for making that clarification. I did also see that you also do public speaking, you do engagements and things like that. So can we touch briefly on that? [00:22:51] Speaker B: Sure. I, right now I speak with smaller groups within companies themselves, business organizations, webinars, not yet at, you know, Tony Robbins stage. Yeah, but that is, that is the, one of the visions. [00:23:05] Speaker C: Right. [00:23:06] Speaker B: But in any case, and speaking about this idea of the bridge generation, the literacy and how important that is and just going back to your example for, and this is an example that I give when I speak is your example. Right. You know, in real time here in preparing for this podcast is you've got to know what you're going to ask. [00:23:27] Speaker A: Absolutely. [00:23:28] Speaker D: Right. [00:23:28] Speaker B: And without your own life experience. [00:23:31] Speaker D: Right. [00:23:31] Speaker B: You would have either had to study AI and lots of things around it and then come up with questions. And you, you need to understand the questions that you're asking. Otherwise they're out of context, et cetera. So an example that I give is when I write, for example, a white paper, right? So I could have, in the olden days, you know, at university, gone to the little file card, right, and had to look in best case at the index of a big textbook and I'll find out the exact information that I'm looking at and not really even know that there's another, you know, three textbooks, two shelves down that are related, right? So, so now when I'm writing a white paper, I'm saying, okay, these are my ideas. I'm going into AI, right? And I'm saying, these are my ideas. I think there's a connection here and there. And that comes from, you know, our own life, human life experience, right? And then it'll tell me yes or no or whatever, or what do you think of this? Or that's a great idea, or not, that's not a great idea, whatever is, right? And then it'll give me different sources. Now I'm not, I don't have the time, right, to go out and spend, you know, months or years studying all the, all the text and all the research and etc. Etc. So what I'll do is I'll say, give me a 2, 300 word summary of the entire research paper and then for each citation, give me another two or three hundred words, right? And then I'll go study that. So at least I know what I'm talking about, you know, basically, right? And then I can, I can come to a, I can come to a conversation and with some kind of knowledge and intelligence and not, you know, just, just wing it and pretend and not let the AI write what it wants. And then that exercise itself come, gives me more ideas. But again, that's true that, that really touches again upon the, the literacy and, and the lifelong learning and being able to continue. So those are the, that's the type of content that I speak when I. [00:25:15] Speaker A: Speak with audience, you know, and people. It's funny, just briefly, people, I've talked to another gentleman, obviously about AI as well too, and he said your spell check was your AI, you know, and people don't even remember, like when you had spell checking in your, you know, we have it now in our computers, but even people who are concerned about it was like, hey, when you were getting that word corrected or you couldn't type in correctly what you were trying to say, right? That was artificial intelligence. It just was such an early stage of it, you didn't think anything about it. So. And obviously this topic is very fascinating. It's very scary for some people. It's very fascinating for people who are implementing this. Is there anything else we haven't touched on? And where can people find Avimetter? Two questions. [00:25:52] Speaker B: I think we touched upon a lot and there's a lot to absorb. I actually have a tool that I put together, no cost that people can use. I call it the Core Purpose Finder. [00:26:04] Speaker A: Okay. [00:26:04] Speaker B: Very simple URL. I don't know if you can put it into the podcast notes. Absolutely bitly. Everyone knows Bit ly bit ly Core Purpose Finder just as it's spelled. And then from there I'll be able to get an email. We can get in touch and we can have a. I can offer from there a free 15 minute consultation and otherwise at my email avi a v I at avimatter av I m a d e r e r.com I gotta. [00:26:31] Speaker A: Tell you, it's been a pleasure and I would love to pick your brain further. I very much appreciative of your time and I think this absolutely this topic's always, always been fascinating and it's a pleasure that you've been on the Tron podcast with. [00:26:43] Speaker B: Wonderful. Thank you so much. All right, take care. [00:26:46] Speaker D: Bye bye.